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  #16  
Old 05-26-2019, 09:05 AM
EvanB EvanB is offline
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RJVB;

Your reference to a resonator with nylon strings was new to me--I was wondering more about traditional flat-topped classical guitars.

The sound hole shape is important on the electric/acoustic being formulated on this forum. I want enough acoustic for song writing and play with small acoustic groups.

Casual;

The research paper suggests that the best performing part of a violin sound hole is the edge where sound pressure is the highest. Do you suppose the paper is talking about the edge of the hole or the edge of the instrument? If the reference is the edge of the instrument then the off-set sound hole makes a lot of sense.
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  #17  
Old 05-26-2019, 09:26 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanB View Post
RJVB;

Your reference to a resonator with nylon strings was new to me--I was wondering more about traditional flat-topped classical guitars.
Alan Carruth should be able to answer you, if he sees the question on here.
But I think the rarity of traditional flat-topped classical guitars with F holes is answer enough in itself. One does see guitars with 2 soundholes which in that case are often not perfectly round but those may be more common in flamenco guitars (I think I've seen examples in review videos of Aquila's Granato strings).
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  #18  
Old 05-26-2019, 11:27 AM
sirwhale sirwhale is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJVB View Post
Alan Carruth should be able to answer you, if he sees the question on here.
But I think the rarity of traditional flat-topped classical guitars with F holes is answer enough in itself. One does see guitars with 2 soundholes which in that case are often not perfectly round but those may be more common in flamenco guitars (I think I've seen examples in review videos of Aquila's Granato strings).
I think flamenco guitars generally have the traditional round centre hole. Those flamenco guitars you have seen in those reviews are by a specific person who has some guitars that he promotes as better, due to certain characteristics you have seen. But that isn't typical.

Personally, I find those videos to be the exact opposite of what is useful. He should play some different stuff if he wants people to actually hear the guitar.
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  #19  
Old 05-26-2019, 12:34 PM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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The videos I have seen weren't intended (I hope) to showcase the guitars, but they didn't do a particularly good job at showcasing the strings either from what I recall.

I'm also pretty certain I've seen similar designs either on here or on another forum.

Either way, I didn't want to claim that flamencas usually have different kinds of soundholes, only suggest that there may be more openness towards experimentation with different designs than in the "serious" classical world.
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  #20  
Old 05-26-2019, 06:24 PM
EvanB EvanB is offline
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I know of two flat-faced nylon string guitars with f holes. The ESPLTD 6N thin line has what is almost one f hole--has anyone tried it?

Ovation has a genuine thin-bodied nylon string guitar with F holes--the YM63. It's a beautiful guitar and can be had in white or red. As I understand it, it has the traditional bowl-shaped Ovation back. Has anyone tried one?
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  #21  
Old 05-27-2019, 03:26 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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Quote:
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I know of two flat-faced nylon string guitars with f holes. The ESPLTD 6N thin line has what is almost one f hole--has anyone tried it?
Plenty of videos on the tube (of both models) but apparently they all avoid demoing the instruments' natural, purely acoustic voices.
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  #22  
Old 05-28-2019, 09:30 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
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Alistair enthusiastically suggested making my 2018 custom nylon string guitar an arch top with f holes and a floating bridge. I was not interested.
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  #23  
Old 05-29-2019, 03:05 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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I was not interested.
Care to elaborate why?
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  #24  
Old 05-29-2019, 09:18 AM
EvanB EvanB is offline
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I don't know Cecil's objection, but mine is the floating bridge. But I am curious regarding the concept of a flat-topped f hole guitar. And looking forward to Cecil's response.
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  #25  
Old 05-29-2019, 10:58 AM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
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The floating bridge was the main reason that I was not interested.

The F hole aesthetic is not my taste.

I was mildly curious about how a nylon string arch top would sound and how it would feel. I have read that arch tops have greater acoustic potential than any other guitar body, keeping in mind that individual tastes vary.

I'm still possibly interested in a thin body X 10 nylon, but it is not on the top of my priority list, and may never be. I am mostly happy with the guitar that I ended up with.
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  #26  
Old 05-29-2019, 11:14 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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And what's the problem with a floating bridge (genuinely curious)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceciltguitar View Post
I was mildly curious about how a nylon string arch top would sound and how it would feel. I have read that arch tops have greater acoustic potential than any other guitar body, keeping in mind that individual tastes vary.
From what I understand they trade off sustain for more power/projection which is why they're not so sought after for classical music.
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  #27  
Old 05-29-2019, 11:49 AM
EvanB EvanB is offline
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Pardon me for horning in on the conversation--like Cecil and others on this site, I am curious about all things nylon strung.

From my perspective, the problem with a floating bridge is that it floats. Intonation is tough enough with a stationary bridge but my experience with a floater is that it requires constant vigilance.

And there's this. With steel strings there are lots of options for where a pickup can be placed. With nylon strings magnetic pickups don't work and you can't get away with a saddle pickup. I'm not sure how a soundboard pickup would handle a movable bridge.

I have yet to hear an acoustic demo of the ESP LTD 6N Thinline or the Ovation YM6e Nylon--either of which might reveal the projection capabilities of F hole placement.

I also suspect, based on my ultra thin X7, that the offset sound hole may be hard to beat.
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  #28  
Old 05-29-2019, 12:19 PM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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I have no experience with floating guitar bridges, but I assume they can't be that different from violin bridges which are also held in place by string tension only - and with which I have ample experience.

The only thing you have to be vigilant about with those, under normal use, is that they tend to get pulled "to their toes" (lean over towards the scroll) because of tuning. All that means is that from time to time you check and correct verticality. Violin bridges being much higher that guitar bridges I expect that this effect will be much smaller on an archtop guitar. In fact, the bridge in my resonator also floats, because fixed to the cone which has some margin of movement in the soundwell. It tended to move sideways when I still had the off-centre tailpiece the guitar came with, but that's stopped after I replaced the tailpiece. I actually appreciate the fact I can tweak the compensation easily myself by slipping a jack under the strings.


Of course one best avoids replacing all strings at once, out of habit
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  #29  
Old 05-29-2019, 06:21 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
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Evan, you spoke the exact same concerns that I had.

Thank you.
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