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  #46  
Old 06-11-2019, 10:37 PM
fumei fumei is offline
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Most of the places I shop for groceries, etc. do not accept credit cards OR debit. So cash.

I have probably bought less than 10 things, EVER, online, so that is not an issue. I pay all my bills online though.
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  #47  
Old 06-12-2019, 01:56 AM
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Just a reminder that there’s a difference between debit cards and credit cards. Debit cards withdraw money directly from your checking (usually) account when you make a purchase - it does not loan you money each time you use it which it’s up to you to either repay each month or start paying interest on, there are no bonus points or fees or interest rates to be concerned with. It’s effectively the same as paying with a check or getting cash from an ATM and paying with that. It’s just more convenient and makes for easier accounting and tracking of expenses. It doesn’t lead to financial irresponsibility because if you make a $50 purchase with a debit cares, that money comes out of your account more or less immediately.

I use credit cards for some large purchases but the vast majority of my electronic purchases are with a debit card, like I used to write checks or pay cash. Usually I can make that debit purchase without touching the card, using Apple Pay, but that doesn’t change that when I make the purchase, the money comes out of my account within minutes or seconds usually - it’s no kind of credit. There are debatable points about the efficacy and true costs (or savings) associated with credit card use, but those don’t apply to debit cards.
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:37 AM
perttime perttime is offline
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The places where I shop for groceries accept credit and debit cards. I usually pay cash.

On the rare occasions when I buy something online, I have the options of using credit card, or making a direct bank transfer. Direct transfers are very easy to do online, within EU.
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  #49  
Old 06-12-2019, 05:09 AM
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Mbroady Mbroady is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inyo View Post
The poster unknowingly refers to interchange compensation for credit card issuers who provide rewards (AKA, cash back).

The interchange rate is baked into the price that businesses charge customers. A business partially subsidizes cash back; everybody who purchases items--no matter the means (cash or credit card or even check)--is assessed a kind of credit card tax, as it were.

So the poster is not only helping to pay for his own cash back, but everybody else's, as well.

Consider, too, that some credit card issuers offer 5 percent rewards incentives on specific categories of financial interactions, up to a finite spending cap; that's an amount businesses cannot afford to cover completely without prohibitive price increases that interfere with profitable commerce.

In such an example, the card issuers merely categorize that interchange debit as a loss leader. They're willing to incur the temporary monetary minus in order to secure from the card holder full interchange compensation in the form of additional purchases later on down the line; that is to say, the card holder accrues and subsequently pays more than enough substantial interest to reliably enrich the card issuer, eventually.
I agree prices are increased to pay off “Cash back” but that is a system that is intrenched in out society. So why not take advantage of the cash back. Better to get something back then nothing, especially since in most cases you are paying the increased prices anyway.
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Last edited by Kerbie; 06-12-2019 at 06:39 AM. Reason: Edited quote only
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  #50  
Old 06-12-2019, 06:33 AM
robj144 robj144 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raysachs View Post
Just a reminder that there’s a difference between debit cards and credit cards. Debit cards withdraw money directly from your checking (usually) account when you make a purchase - it does not loan you money each time you use it which it’s up to you to either repay each month or start paying interest on, there are no bonus points or fees or interest rates to be concerned with. It’s effectively the same as paying with a check or getting cash from an ATM and paying with that. It’s just more convenient and makes for easier accounting and tracking of expenses. It doesn’t lead to financial irresponsibility because if you make a $50 purchase with a debit cares, that money comes out of your account more or less immediately.

I use credit cards for some large purchases but the vast majority of my electronic purchases are with a debit card, like I used to write checks or pay cash. Usually I can make that debit purchase without touching the card, using Apple Pay, but that doesn’t change that when I make the purchase, the money comes out of my account within minutes or seconds usually - it’s no kind of credit. There are debatable points about the efficacy and true costs (or savings) associated with credit card use, but those don’t apply to debit cards.
You have to be careful with debit cards and I would advise not to use one at all. If your debit card gets stolen or hacked, they draw directly from your bank account without any buffer. Credit cards have fraud alerts and won't hit you at all if you get it right away.

A long time ago, someone hacked a department store near me. I used a debit card there and someone got my debit card and pin number and made duplicates. They were using them all over the world and withdrew thousands of dollars straight out of my bank account. I had to go to the bank and it was a major PITA, but I eventually got all my money back after some time.

I literally have never used a debit card since... literally as in it was more than 10 years ago and I've never once used it for a transaction in that time. Always a credit card for that and to get points.
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  #51  
Old 06-12-2019, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by robj144 View Post
You have to be careful with debit cards and I would advise not to use one at all. If your debit card gets stolen or hacked, they draw directly from your bank account without any buffer. Credit cards have fraud alerts and won't hit you at all if you get it right away.

A long time ago, someone hacked a department store near me. I used a debit card there and someone got my debit card and pin number and made duplicates. They were using them all over the world and withdrew thousands of dollars straight out of my bank account. I had to go to the bank and it was a major PITA, but I eventually got all my money back after some time.

I literally have never used a debit card since... literally as in it was more than 10 years ago and I've never once used it for a transaction in that time. Always a credit card for that and to get points.
About 90% of the time I use my debit card via Apple Pay - nobody including the merchant ever sees the card number. In the past I used it a lot and over the many years I used it I had a couple instances of fraud that between the bank and I was cleared up very quickly. I know there are possibilities for problems, but my experience tells me they're very infrequent and the banks are getting much much better at fraud prevention these days.

For large purchases and almost any online purchases I tend to use the credit card specifically because of the protections it offers and because I make some tiny amount of money by putting larger charges on that and paying off my bill every month. I get all of the complaints about credit cards but they're in wide use and me never using them isn't gonna make the problems and potential problems go away. I mean, the world would be a lot better off if we all stopped driving and using air conditioning too, but at a certain point complaining about the systemic evils of credit cards is a bit of tilting at windmills.

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  #52  
Old 06-12-2019, 09:05 AM
seannx seannx is offline
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Quote:
You have to be careful with debit cards and I would advise not to use one at all. If your debit card gets stolen or hacked, they draw directly from your bank account without any buffer. Credit cards have fraud alerts and won't hit you at all if you get it right away.
I had a similar thing happen to me with our company debit card. Someone bought a very expensive international air ticket - in Austria - that left the account overdrawn. I immediately added more money and got on the phone with my bank. They reversed the charge, but while I was on the phone (for at least 40 minutes), another charge was made. I had to fill out forms on that one. On my bank rep's advice, I switched to credit cards afterwards. All are set to send me a text notification when charges are made.

As quoted above, with debit cards the money comes right out, potentially leaving you liable for overdraft charges, if a check or another transaction posts afterwards and there aren't sufficient funds. Even attempting a purchase with a debit card, which for some reason doesn't go through, can create an authorization that holds that amount, and can place your balance in jeopardy. It will fall off in a few days, but until then will show up as a transaction. Some banks will realize this and not assess overdraft charges, but others don't, and will need to be called right away. So if you must use a debit card, check the balance and transactions daily. And better, switch to a credit card, paid off in full each month. With some cards, there are other benefits, like theft and loss protection for purchases, vehicle damage insurance included on car rentals, etc.
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  #53  
Old 06-12-2019, 10:19 AM
619TF 619TF is offline
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Funny but I was in a gas station yesterday and the guy ahead of me had a card. It took him longer to put the info into the card reader and have it processed than it did for me to just hand the cash to the register guy and walk away. Not a whole lot longer but it was definitely longer. In fact the guy behind me in the line let out a huge sigh when the guy with the card went to put it into the reader as he also had cash at the ready (we exchanged a look so I know exactly why he made that sound).
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  #54  
Old 06-12-2019, 11:49 AM
ahorsewithnonam ahorsewithnonam is offline
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Originally Posted by 619TF View Post
Funny but I was in a gas station yesterday and the guy ahead of me had a card. It took him longer to put the info into the card reader and have it processed than it did for me to just hand the cash to the register guy and walk away. Not a whole lot longer but it was definitely longer. In fact the guy behind me in the line let out a huge sigh when the guy with the card went to put it into the reader as he also had cash at the ready (we exchanged a look so I know exactly why he made that sound).
Never heard of this. The card scans within 3 seconds. You donít put in information.
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  #55  
Old 06-12-2019, 11:57 AM
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Never heard of this. The card scans within 3 seconds. You donít put in information.
At most gas stations, the care-reader on the pump will first ask you if the card is a debit, and then ask either for a zip code or a pin number depending on your answer. Seems pretty quick to me, but if there's a guy right there waiting to take your cash and you don't need any change, I can see that being marginally quicker. But if you have to go inside the station/store, forget it, the card reader is way quicker then. And an increasing number of gas pumps are starting to take Apple / Samsung Pay, which is quicker yet.
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  #56  
Old 06-19-2019, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by TeleBluesMan View Post
The power goes out here a lot during summer thunderstorms. Most stores can't process cc without power. Also, ATMs don't work when the power is out.
Few POS systems have the battery backup to keep going in a power outage. Especially in a grocery store or gas station also selling groceries. This is as simple as how much power the lane's displays, printer, scale and in some cases belt use.

Even small merchants use modern distributors so the choice to make a transition is very likely no in a power outage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robj144 View Post
I find that a person paying with cash is rarely ever faster than using a card. Between fumbling with the money and making change, it takes longer almost every time.

I use a card nearly exclusively for the points and a layer of security as well. I particularly love places with Android pay because I pay with my watch and it takes two seconds.
A merchant in the US fully compliant is at the mercy of smart protocols when that PIN pad is working. One of the cards I use often is more prone to not get an authorization than another. A merchant can also take on risk themselves and approve a transaction faster.

The contactless payment systems mentioned are superior. Apple Pay that has been mentioned doesn't give the merchant your credit card number as a good example.

When a web site accepts Apple Pay you give the merchant minimal information to complete the transaction, your wrist watch or phone authorizes it, and it's a best way. If your Apple Pay is tied to a particular MasterCard # consider a criminal someplace else could have that in a breach. Your phone or wrist watch authorizing the transaction is a layer of security.

I'm convinced my change to cash for some sales and making all sales possible with Apple Pay and a specific card have cut what seemed like regular stollen number issues. For about 3 years I've only used one of my regular cards when I do international travel and less than ideal travel in the US. That card and not the one I try to use most often is the only one that's been stollen in recent times. I'm sure that is because of the transactions where there was no EMV in use. I do believe I've proved to self that Apple Pay is best when you can do it.

I'm also convinced that few merchants and their vendors are following the rules and as secure as they should be. I'm a year into new responsibilities in a group of stores. The vendors, managers and customers all remind me of the stats class when the lecturer said "Today you'll learn being average doesn't mean 1/2 way smart.".

I don't like it when people put down cashiers and make some assumptions for particular generations. In a way I'm over hundreds of them. They're as young as 16 and as old as 81. They have a demanding job that doesn't pay particularly well. Ours all have a camera that watches them and the customer. BI in the system can show a good cashier or a bad one. Being a millennial doesn't have anything to do with their being good or not. The most shameful in what we can see is often the behavior of my baby boomer group and generation behind me.
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  #57  
Old 06-19-2019, 06:11 AM
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I do believe I've proved to self that Apple Pay is best when you can do it.
I believe it is as well. And the funny thing, when you're dealing with small merchants or service providers, they often take all of the Apple / Samsung / Google pay options but don't even know they do. When they get their periodically upgraded card readers from their banks, almost all of them now take those types of electronic payments, but half the time the staff doesn't know they do.

I have two different doctors who's card readers clearly were setup for electronic payments (there's a particular symbol that looks sort of like a wi-fi symbol), but when I asked if I could use Apple Pay, they looked confused and said they didn't think so. I asked if I could try it, and in both cases, it went right through and they were satisfied with it because it told them the transaction had been approved, just like if I'd used a card. Sometimes you have to push a little bit, but that technology is coming online in more and more and smaller and smaller vendors. It's safer than a credit card because nobody ever see's your numbers. And if you lose your phone, nobody else will be able to use it because it uses either your thumbprint or facial recognition to OK the purchase, so unless you have an EXTREMELY identical twin....
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by raysachs View Post
I believe it is as well. And the funny thing, when you're dealing with small merchants or service providers, they often take all of the Apple / Samsung / Google pay options but don't even know they do. When they get their periodically upgraded card readers from their banks, almost all of them now take those types of electronic payments, but half the time the staff doesn't know they do.

I have two different doctors who's card readers clearly were setup for electronic payments (there's a particular symbol that looks sort of like a wi-fi symbol), but when I asked if I could use Apple Pay, they looked confused and said they didn't think so. I asked if I could try it, and in both cases, it went right through and they were satisfied with it because it told them the transaction had been approved, just like if I'd used a card. Sometimes you have to push a little bit, but that technology is coming online in more and more and smaller and smaller vendors. It's safer than a credit card because nobody ever see's your numbers. And if you lose your phone, nobody else will be able to use it because it uses either your thumbprint or facial recognition to OK the purchase, so unless you have an EXTREMELY identical twin....
I've noticed health care locations still have PIN pads that are not up to date or configured as they should be. Two insurers I deal with have or had offices the same way. I take that as more proof of how terrible many are in terms of being well run institutions, and it helps understand when I read about tech companies making efforts and purchases in those or new areas.
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  #59  
Old 06-19-2019, 08:05 AM
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I always carry 2-3 hundred dollars for emergency. But almost always use my credit card. The most usage being at the pump at the gas station.
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  #60  
Old 06-19-2019, 01:55 PM
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CASH IS KING, BABY!!!
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