Update on Sable Setup

[tbeltrans]

For those interested in the Sable...

I posted a while back about how much an adjustment to the slot nut depth on my Sable made a difference in the ease of playability. This is a follow up...

Recently, I took My 2019 Taylor K14ce Builder's Edition to the local Taylor warranty repair shop to have the action adjusted as low as possible since I play fingerstyle with a light touch. I was amazed at the difference between before and after. That Taylor is now the easiest to play acoustic I have ever owned (until I finished my Sable, which is now even easier!!!). With a Taylor, these adjustments are primarily done with shims that set the neck angle, rather than lowering the height of the saddle, as one would do on most guitars. Therefore, I won't touch it with the intent of doing a set up. I will leave it to the factory trained guitar people.

So I carefully measured the Taylor at the nut (since they adjusted the slot depth too) and at the 12th fret for string height.

Yesterday, I finally decided to adjust my Sable to match (or beat) those specs. Now, my Sable measures between 3/64" and 4/64" from the bottom of the low E string to the top of the fret at the 12th fret, and 3/64" for the high E string, also at the 12th fret. The slot depth tweaks I did prior to this matched what the Taylor warranty people did to my Taylor, so I am leaving that alone.

The guitar plays like a dream and I have no issues with buzzing with or without a capo. A hard strummer would encounter buzzing, but since that is not how I play, I have the advantage of a VERY easy to play instrument for those big jazz chords and intricate fingerstyle.

The very real advantage of the Sable having its action this low is that unlike a wood instrument, the neck will NEVER shift during changes in humidity, so it should always maintain this setup, while I fully expect to be taking my Taylor back to the shop once in a while if it starts buzzing.

The strings I use are the Elixir Phosphor Bronze HD Light Nanoweb, which are a mix of light gauge bass strings and medium higher strings.

This, as I said in my previous post on the subject, is not a negative reflection on the Sable. Like the Taylor, it is relatively easy to play right out of the box. However, I am convinced now that guitar manufacturers set up the guitars for a compromise between a strummer and a fingerpicker, and it is therefore up to the end customer to set it up however the individual player prefers. I prefer the action as low as possible.

With guitars I have had in the past, the problem has always been that if I got the action this low, it always seemed to have some annoying artifacts, which neither of these guitars seem to have at all.

Anyway, I hope this information is helpful to anyone around here who might wish for just a bit more playability with their Sable. I can't comment on other makes and models of guitars with regard to this kind of setup, since I don't have those, so please don't consider this post a comparison with any other guitar. It is only about what I successfully did with my Sable. I find myself playing much more these days, and my hands don't get tired after even hours of playing. I have no further plans to experiment with this guitar.
It is perfection as it is, and it takes very little pressure at all to fret a note now. What a treat!

Tony

[mikealpine]

Good info! I opened the door to buying a Sable, and we’ll see what happens. I’m more of a light-medium strummer so it could be fine right out of the box.

[Earl49]

Good info, Tony. Manufacturers have to take a guess at the "average" player's setup. If anything they guess a bit high, because it is much easier to lower action than to raise it. But a true world-class setup can make a good instrument into a great player.

I play a mix of 75% bare nails fingerpicking and 25% moderate strumming. With your setup I would have to lay off a bit. My guitars are all OK with the typical factory spec 6/64" on the bass E and 4/64" on the treble e. If I want to tweak one down from there, I can do it myself. I do that for a guitar that gets dedicated to fingerpicking in an open tuning, for example.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Earl49

Good info, Tony. Manufacturers have to take a guess at the "average" player's setup. If anything they guess a bit high, because it is much easier to lower action than to raise it. But a true world-class setup can make a good instrument into a great player.

I play a mix of 75% bare nails fingerpicking and 25% moderate strumming. With your setup I would have to lay off a bit. My guitars are all OK with the typical factory spec 6/64" on the bass E and 4/64" on the treble e. If I want to tweak one down from there, I can do it myself. I do that for a guitar that gets dedicated to fingerpicking in an open tuning, for example.

In the interest of transparency (today's word for "honesty", I suppose), I can't really say I know what I am doing. I have watched Marty Reynolds work on my guitars over the years, and just made similar movements as I saw him do. The difference is that he knows what he is doing, and how much of it to do. I just guessed and hacked my way, and am just excited that it worked instead of ending up a buzzing mess.

I figure that if I was able to do it, somebody here who really does know what s/he is doing, should be able to do it that much better than I did. My tendency is that if it works well, to just do a little bit more, and that is when the trouble starts. So I am stopping here and enjoying the playability.

Tony



Tony

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by mikealpine

Good info! I opened the door to buying a Sable, and we’ll see what happens. I’m more of a light-medium strummer so it could be fine right out of the box.

The Sable is very playable for most general styles right out of the box. When the repair person at the Taylor shop watched me play, he said that he could do out of warranty work to lower the action lower than factory specs because I have a light fingerstyle touch. I decided to do that and figured it should also work well on my Sable because the neck is straight, as are the frets.

There was at least one poster in my other thread on this subject who said that his Sable was perfect the way it is, so that is probably true for many folks who mostly strum and/or flatpick.

Tony

[Earl49]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

.....his Sable was perfect the way it is, so that is probably true for many folks who mostly strum and/or flatpick.....

Factory setups can work well for many people. I have never done any set up work on my Taylor guitars that come with the factory 6/64" and 4/64" specs mentioned above. I have had one or two re-shimmed to slightly change the neck angle, and lowered the nut slot on one string of one guitar with a file.
But for the most part I'm happy as they come out of the box. Could they be made a little better for specific uses -- probably. But I don't want to have to worry about switching guitars when reaching for a flat pick.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Earl49

Factory setups can work well for many people. I have never done any set up work on my Taylor guitars that come with the factory 6/64" and 4/64" specs mentioned above. I have had one or two re-shimmed to slightly change the neck angle, and lowered the nut slot on one string of one guitar with a file.
But for the most part I'm happy as they come out of the box. Could they be made a little better for specific uses -- probably. But I don't want to have to worry about switching guitars when reaching for a flat pick.

That, then is the difference between us - I never reach for a flatpick. So for me, having the lowest possible action is desirable. I notice when listening closely to Tommy Emmanuel that he has that telltale low action buzz on his Maton, and I have noticed it with some other fancy fingerstyle players. My setup doesn't go quite that far, stopping just short of even the occasional buzzing. I am really happy that it didn't go that far for me.

So, as I mentioned in my other posts, for those who don't need/want that very low action, ignore what I am describing because it is for a very specific purpose. The factory set up for both Taylor and McPherson seem to be ideal for the largest number of players.

Tony

[ed62]

Glad to hear the saddle worked out well for you Tony...My new saddle height seems close to what you have now....I eventually may have to invest in some nut slot files for the ultimate setup but my sable is very much to my liking now with the lowered saddle as is....incredibly easy to play fingerstyle.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by ed62

Glad to hear the saddle worked out well for you Tony...My new saddle height seems close to what you have now....I eventually may have to invest in some nut slot files for the ultimate setup but my sable is very much to my liking now with the lowered saddle as is....incredibly easy to play fingerstyle.

Ed, the only reason I would consider filing the nut slots is if fretting on the first few frets seems a bit more difficult (stiff) than you would like it to be. This would not be uncommon. When the Taylor warranty people set up my Taylor, the nut slots were filed. However, a very little bit goes a long way, and it is all too easy to go too far without realizing it until you string up the guitar again and experience string buzz.

So if you think your Sable is just fine as is, I would leave it that way instead of risking going even a tiny bit too far. I consider myself extremely fortunate that I didn't go too far, but just far enough to achieve the desired results, since it was luck rather than skill in my case.

Tony

[GuitarLuva]

Glad you got it all worked out. I was very happy with the stock setup on the Sable. For someone who plays a little bit of everything it was perfect. No buzzing under heavy strumming and fingerstyle easy peasy. One of the few guitars in my lifetime that I didn't bother with a setup.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Glad you got it all worked out. I was very happy with the stock setup on the Sable. For someone who plays a little bit of everything it was perfect. No buzzing under heavy strumming and fingerstyle easy peasy. One of the few guitars in my lifetime that I didn't bother with a setup.

Yes, I think that both Taylor and McPherson got that right. Please note that this statement is not intended to be a reflection or comparison on other makes and models, but rather a simple observation of the guitars I am most familiar with. My changes and results will probably only appeal to a very small minority of players, so it makes perfect sense that I would need to do it myself.

Edit: It is time for me to be taking a bit of a break from the forums, as many of us do from time to time (i.e. this isn't one of those tearful or revengeful "goodbye" things at all). I am very focused on building repertoire and advancing my arranging skills, now that my guitar is situated, and want to focus on that as much as possible for now. The course I am working through requires a lot of work as any college-level course would. I wanted to post this thread to provide closure for anybody who might have interest in this little Sable set up project. Because of its straight neck and even frets, the Sable seems to be able to handle a very, very low action quite well. To those who play fingerstyle with a light touch and especially frequently use those big "jazz" cords for that nice, lush harmony, such a set up is ideal because you then have essentially the playability of a decent archtop without having to abandon the straight acoustic guitar (which is really my incentive with this). I think any concerns and applicable viewpoints have been expressed, so thanks to those have posted in this thread.

Tony

[jdinco]

Once I put the "low" saddle in the Sable, I thought it was perfect for me, I'm a strummer and there was no buzzing. Still in the honeymoon phase, but what a fantastic guitar. I'm loving it so far.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by jdinaz

Once I put the "low" saddle in the Sable, I thought it was perfect for me, I'm a strummer and there was no buzzing. Still in the honeymoon phase, but what a fantastic guitar. I'm loving it so far.

Wait wut, you bought a Sable? Where's the NGD thread?

[jdinco]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Wait wut, you bought a Sable? Where's the NGD thread?

I'll get to it soon....

[mikealpine]

Originally Posted by jdinaz

I'll get to it soon....

Mine is now on the way!