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#1
08-02-2020, 05:01 AM
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Cracks in Ziricote! Advice Appreciated!
I am building a guitar for a client paying full price. The second time I have ever used Ziricote. The first time I used this wood it was beautifully dry, stable and seemed relatively easy to work with. This latest guitar, the more I look at the wood the more I see tiny shakes, cracks and separating grain.
I have managed to position my body shape in such a way that all (i thought) of the cracks were trimmed off and discarded. However today when final thicknesssing the back I have spotted 2 more tiny cracks. The last thing I want is to send the finished guitar and have it returned a few months down the line with problems that are very costly and time consuming to fix, not to mention the horrible inconvenience for the client. This is my concern currently. So i believe I have a few options but I would appreciate advice from others: 1. fill the crack with thin CA and glue a small piece of veneer inside to stop it from spreading and continue with the build? 2. Speak to my wood supplier and see what they can do for me, also get information about the age of the wood and how it was dried/seasoned etc? 3. Speak to the client and ask if they would be open to using a different kind of wood that is less prone to this issue? TIA Ash Nightingale 
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#2
08-02-2020, 06:58 AM
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I don't think it's an easy question to answer. As a client, I'd want to be consulted, unless the issues are really trivial & left to the experience & expertise of the builder.
#1 if I was enamored of the set & the problem can be mitigated. #2 if better material is available. #3 if guidance to different materials is acceptable to me. You forgot #4 - cancellation.
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Kevin Krell, Executive Director, International Traditional Music Society, Inc. A non-profit 501c3 charity/educational public benefit corporation Wooden Flute Obsession CDs https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=572579
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#4
08-02-2020, 09:53 AM
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You haven’t posted photos of the wood for those here to assess the magnitude of the problem. You also haven’t stated the circumstances by which you purchased this particular set of wood.
The safest choice is simply to select another set of wood, probably Ziricote since that was what was commissioned. If need be get input from the customer concerning the specific set, if he or she had input on the selection of the first set. Certainly, you can take it up with your supplier. You haven’t provided us any details about how you have maintained the wood since you purchased it, or how long ago you purchased it. Sometimes there are defects in the wood that can’t be seen until you start working it. It is unclear whether that’s the seller’s problem or yours, or what the seller feels is their liability in it. The CA glue and veneer will likely work fine but you might not know if you missed a check until after the finish is applied or later, what you are trying to avoid happening.
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#5
08-02-2020, 10:14 AM
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I'm not an expert at all, but I recently asked a pretty well known luthier who hangs around here a bit about the use of Ziricote for this same reason...tendency for cracks. He informed me that he likes to use Ziricote, but tends to flood it with CA to help with small cracks and stability.
Not sure if that is an option at this stage of your build or not, and I'm sure better luthiers can weigh in on this as an option. Another thought is to use a product like FastCap 2P10 for grain filling and it might create some crack stability. Good video on Youtube if you want to check that out as a possible option. Good luck with the build!
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#8
08-03-2020, 09:53 AM
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Wenge and Ziricote are two woods that I always flood the surface with thin CA glue. This also helps you see if there are any issues as the glue will wick from one surface to the other if you have a crack that runs through the board.
Also, you are discovering firsthand why these woods come with a significant upcharge to the customer. On the surface, it may look like Ziricote is only a few hundred dollars more than a set of Indian rosewood -- but that is far from the case.
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#10
08-03-2020, 11:41 AM
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Easy question. Your set is showing multiple checks and flaws, and you have not yet done anything besides thicknessing it. That's enough information, even without photos. If you take pride in your work, don't use it.
__________________
"Still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest." --Paul Simon Last edited by Howard Klepper; 07-06-2022 at 09:02 AM.
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#11
07-05-2022, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
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#13
07-07-2022, 12:18 AM
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The CA glue helps illuminate any potential problems. For example, if you have a check in the wood and flood with thin CA - it will wick all along the crack/check. I've done this before and found a set of wood to be more problematic than I first realized. In other words, it can help you diagnose whether the wood is acceptable or not.
By "flooding", I simply mean to dump enough CA glue on the surface that it puddles before wicking into the wood. The CA glue will not stain the wood at all -- but it does darken the surface. The darkened surface is then easily sanded and you are back to normal after removing a few thousandths of material. So do this when you are first preparing for joining the set. For Ziricote and Wenge, once the set has been joined and the body outline cut out, I will go around the perimeter with CA as I feel it helps harden the edge and help prevent accidental cracks. Then I sand to the desired thickness. The CA seems to penetrate further into woods with a soft surface like Wenge and Mahogany -- so allow for at least 0.010 to 0.015" surface removal on these type of woods. CA glue is great for stabilizing hairline fractures but it doesn't always leave satisfactory results. If you have a troublesome set, do what you can to fix it and if it doesn't look right, then you don't use it. But a lot of times very small fractures or checks can be glued and stabilized with CA.
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#14
07-07-2022, 06:53 AM
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If flooding with CA or doing any other large CA project, I suggest you wear a respirator and goggles.
CA fumes can sting your eyes and attach to the moisture in your nostrils. At least for me, I can wind up sneezing for 3 days.
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#15
07-07-2022, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
You can get odorless CA too but it is more expensive. The reason why I use thin CA on Wenge and BRW is because I think it might strengthen it, it is glue after all, and those two woods in particular love to crack. I used CA as a pore filler on the last Wenge guitar I built for dual purpose.
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