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  #31  
Old 01-19-2011, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Christens View Post
The nature of drums is a lion skin draped over a hollowed out log.


Since we have moved beyond that for drums, maybe we can try something new for acoustic guitars.
Great analogy, Steve. In fact, you should make it part of your signature:

Note to wood guitar snobs: The nature of drums is a lion skin draped over a hollowed out log. Since we have moved beyond that for drums, maybe we can try something new for acoustic guitars. Get over it. Your loss!
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  #32  
Old 01-19-2011, 05:24 PM
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Hey, everybody, didja hear? Peavey is going to start making carbon fiber drums! I heard it right here in this thread!!
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  #33  
Old 01-19-2011, 05:33 PM
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First off, I want pics. Anybody who's got CA pics, post em dammit.


I love the look of those guitars. They look absolutely cool, I think. I don't think I'll buy one, till I can play one. I played a rainsong once and didn't like it much.

But what's the deal? There are guitars made out of metal. Are people really upset that CF guitars are being made? I'm not really stoked because they are made out of CF, nor am I trying to be green (If I was, I'd off myself) but to me that look really comfortable to play, the stay in tune factor and non adjust factor is major, and I'm glad that someone has finally dared to make anything different. I mean come on. In the past 100 years or whatever has anything really changed with acoustic guitars besides the addition of a truss rod?
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  #34  
Old 01-19-2011, 05:40 PM
D. Churchland D. Churchland is offline
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The nature of acoustic guitars is wood.
The nature of people is denial
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  #35  
Old 01-21-2011, 08:22 AM
Ellis Seal Ellis Seal is offline
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Default Peavy CAs are the Real Deal

Hi - this is Ellis, founder of CA and designer/developer of the CA guitars.

First off, I want to say that my comments are un-biased - I have no ownership in the CA line or royalty agreement with Peavey, nor am I employed by Peavey. I do consult with them from time to time on specific issues.

Peavey has made a full committment to CA guitars. They have renovated an area of one of their factories to create a first class manufacturing area for CA guitars. They have moved all the equipment, tooling, and processes from the CA facility in Louisiana and re-established them in MS. They have kept true to the designs and manufacturing processes used by CA.

They have also committed to the fundamental premise of CA of making great sounding, trouble free guitars. The slogan they are using with CA is "Amazing tone, now and forever". They also are commited to expanding improving the line as they move forward.

As for their production capability, the did have several gutiars at NAMM that were build at the new facility in Meridian, MS. And the quality of these guitars was overall, very good.

No doubt, they will have some issues as they go through the learning curve and expand their production, but from what I see, they are committed to building first class, quality guitars.

Peavey is just getting their feet wet with composite materials, but they have lots of ideas for new applications both in acoustic guitars and other applications - I would not be surprised to see other carbon fiber applications introduced by Peavey in the future.

I would not also be surprised if there were a lower priced line introduced somewhere down the road.

For those that loved the sound and freedom a CA offers, CA is back!

For those who have never tried one, it is about time you did.

Ellis Seal
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  #36  
Old 01-21-2011, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Seal View Post
Hi - this is Ellis, founder of CA and designer/developer of the CA guitars.

First off, I want to say that my comments are un-biased - I have no ownership in the CA line or royalty agreement with Peavey, nor am I employed by Peavey. I do consult with them from time to time on specific issues.

Peavey has made a full committment to CA guitars. They have renovated an area of one of their factories to create a first class manufacturing area for CA guitars. They have moved all the equipment, tooling, and processes from the CA facility in Louisiana and re-established them in MS. They have kept true to the designs and manufacturing processes used by CA.

They have also committed to the fundamental premise of CA of making great sounding, trouble free guitars. The slogan they are using with CA is "Amazing tone, now and forever". They also are commited to expanding improving the line as they move forward.

As for their production capability, the did have several gutiars at NAMM that were build at the new facility in Meridian, MS. And the quality of these guitars was overall, very good.

No doubt, they will have some issues as they go through the learning curve and expand their production, but from what I see, they are committed to building first class, quality guitars.

Peavey is just getting their feet wet with composite materials, but they have lots of ideas for new applications both in acoustic guitars and other applications - I would not be surprised to see other carbon fiber applications introduced by Peavey in the future.

I would not also be surprised if there were a lower priced line introduced somewhere down the road.

For those that loved the sound and freedom a CA offers, CA is back!

For those who have never tried one, it is about time you did.

Ellis Seal
Thanks Ellis! As an inventor myself and lover of CA guitars, I admire your imagination, ingenuity, entrepreneurial spirit, integrity and passion. You have brought to the guitar world, an important step in the evolution of the instrument we love. I hope you (and others at CA) did well through this transition, and continue to realize your dreams in whatever capacity you choose. The CA buzz continues!
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  #37  
Old 01-21-2011, 09:11 AM
AdventureGuide AdventureGuide is offline
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Originally Posted by Ellis Seal View Post
For those that loved the sound and freedom a CA offers, CA is back!

For those who have never tried one, it is about time you did.
I am looking forward to trying the new Cargo guitar. It "should" be the perfect guitar to take on my next Mt. McKinley climb.

Jim
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  #38  
Old 01-21-2011, 09:48 AM
wooglins wooglins is offline
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Originally Posted by knuckle View Post
First off, I want pics. Anybody who's got CA pics, post em dammit.


I love the look of those guitars. They look absolutely cool, I think. I don't think I'll buy one, till I can play one. I played a rainsong once and didn't like it much.

But what's the deal? There are guitars made out of metal. Are people really upset that CF guitars are being made? I'm not really stoked because they are made out of CF, nor am I trying to be green (If I was, I'd off myself) but to me that look really comfortable to play, the stay in tune factor and non adjust factor is major, and I'm glad that someone has finally dared to make anything different. I mean come on. In the past 100 years or whatever has anything really changed with acoustic guitars besides the addition of a truss rod?
There are a number of amazing innovations that have occurred in the past 100 years that relate the to design of the acoustic guitar. Adjustable necks are are one the most significant IMHO. The creation of the adjustable neck solved a fundamental flaw in the design of the acoustic guitar that existed from its inception. Carbon fiber guitars could be another, but the jury is still out as to if they can be built in a way that still sounds like an acoustic guitar. I believe they might eventually solve this, but it may not be possible. Carbon fiber may not be able to vibrate in a way that is similar enough to wood no matter how much effort is put into design. If that is the end result then the carbon fiber guitar will be something different, but still worthwhile.
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  #39  
Old 01-21-2011, 10:03 AM
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Well I've never played a CA before I did try a rainsong a long time ago and if I remember it seemed very stiff.

Being that I'll never be able to actually play a CA, I'm going to have to order one sight unseen. Unless GC is going to carry them. Local shops don't carry anything over $200 it seems. We'll see.

I'd like to see some pics and specs of the new stuff. The CA site is pretty vague. I think what I want is something that is a little larger than a cargo but not like a dread or jumbo. Probably the OX model.
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  #40  
Old 01-21-2011, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by wooglins View Post
Carbon fiber guitars could be another, but the jury is still out as to if they can be built in a way that still sounds like an acoustic guitar.
Huh? This comment "wood" be biased, with the assumption that acoustics MUST sound like wood. Well, newsflash! Carbon fiber comes pretty darned close, but with positive, even improved characteristics all their own compared to wood. They're not meant to be wood, but a new, totally legitimate sound and feel to the acoustic guitar.
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  #41  
Old 01-21-2011, 10:15 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Seal View Post
Hi - this is Ellis, founder of CA and designer/developer of the CA guitars.

First off, I want to say that my comments are un-biased - I have no ownership in the CA line or royalty agreement with Peavey, nor am I employed by Peavey. I do consult with them from time to time on specific issues.

Peavey has made a full committment to CA guitars. They have renovated an area of one of their factories to create a first class manufacturing area for CA guitars. They have moved all the equipment, tooling, and processes from the CA facility in Louisiana and re-established them in MS. They have kept true to the designs and manufacturing processes used by CA.

They have also committed to the fundamental premise of CA of making great sounding, trouble free guitars. The slogan they are using with CA is "Amazing tone, now and forever". They also are commited to expanding improving the line as they move forward.

As for their production capability, the did have several gutiars at NAMM that were build at the new facility in Meridian, MS. And the quality of these guitars was overall, very good.

No doubt, they will have some issues as they go through the learning curve and expand their production, but from what I see, they are committed to building first class, quality guitars.

Peavey is just getting their feet wet with composite materials, but they have lots of ideas for new applications both in acoustic guitars and other applications - I would not be surprised to see other carbon fiber applications introduced by Peavey in the future.

I would not also be surprised if there were a lower priced line introduced somewhere down the road.

For those that loved the sound and freedom a CA offers, CA is back!

For those who have never tried one, it is about time you did.

Ellis Seal
Welcome to the forum Ellis, wish we could have met at NAMM. Glad to hear that Peavey is consulting with you, I am really looking forward to see what they will do with the brand as I'm sure many here are. Although the only full size guitars I was able to handle were old stock, I did read here a few days after the show that there were Peavey made guitars stashed away somewhere. Honestly, considering peavey acquired CA just six months ago I was not expecting to see any new guitars so I am pleasantly surprised.

BTW, I saw the picture of the gloss GX sporting the red rosette you and Laurie designed for me for the AGF OX project. I must say seeing that rosette on a new guitar was bittersweet but it sure looks good. Not sure if you were still at CA at the end but we ended up taking thirty orders for those AGF guitars so there were a lot of disappointed members here when CA closed, most prominently J.R. who told me the fiasco might have soured him on future AGF limited projects. I see Peavey is using the bronze color you guys introduced at winter NAMM 2010. I actually had dibs on the first acoustics you guys were going to build using that color, glad to see it's a reality now.

I wish you and Peavey all the best, and please stop in next time you are in the area.

Ted
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  #42  
Old 01-21-2011, 10:22 AM
mchalebk mchalebk is offline
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Originally Posted by wooglins View Post
Carbon fiber guitars could be another, but the jury is still out as to if they can be built in a way that still sounds like an acoustic guitar. I believe they might eventually solve this, but it may not be possible. Carbon fiber may not be able to vibrate in a way that is similar enough to wood no matter how much effort is put into design.
I disagree that the jury is still out; the CA Legacy models sound like wooden guitars. My Vintage Performer (same as Legacy with Vintage voicing) sounds like a wood guitar. In a blind test, I would be surprised if anybody would be able to say "that's not made of wood". They (CA) figured out that the key to making a composite guitar sound like a wooden guitar is to use bracing. Most CF guitar manufacturers don't use bracing, because it's not needed for structural integrity. However, if you want a composite guitar to sound like a wood guitar, the bracing is necessary.

Yo-Yo Ma owns a carbon fiber cello. Do you really think he'd be playing an instrument that didn't sound like a traditional cello? Carbon fiber instruments can indeed be made to sound like wood instruments if the manufacturer makes that a design goal.

Oh, and who said that an acoustic guitar has to sound like wood to sound like an acoustic guitar? Traditional acoustic guitar, yes; acoustic guitar, no.
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  #43  
Old 01-21-2011, 10:51 AM
1cubilindo 1cubilindo is offline
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Yea it was a fiasco. Looking forward to the continuation and growth of the CA line.
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  #44  
Old 01-21-2011, 11:03 AM
Steve Christens Steve Christens is offline
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Originally Posted by mchalebk View Post
I disagree that the jury is still out; the CA Legacy models sound like wooden guitars. My Vintage Performer (same as Legacy with Vintage voicing) sounds like a wood guitar. In a blind test, I would be surprised if anybody would be able to say "that's not made of wood". They (CA) figured out that the key to making a composite guitar sound like a wooden guitar is to use bracing. Most CF guitar manufacturers don't use bracing, because it's not needed for structural integrity. However, if you want a composite guitar to sound like a wood guitar, the bracing is necessary.

Yo-Yo Ma owns a carbon fiber cello. Do you really think he'd be playing an instrument that didn't sound like a traditional cello? Carbon fiber instruments can indeed be made to sound like wood instruments if the manufacturer makes that a design goal.

Oh, and who said that an acoustic guitar has to sound like wood to sound like an acoustic guitar? Traditional acoustic guitar, yes; acoustic guitar, no.
Gosh darn it - I was going to try and make all these same points!

Does remind me of the old tube (valve to you Brits) vs. transistor debate. ("If the amp ain't got tubes it's no good!")

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  #45  
Old 01-21-2011, 11:05 AM
wooglins wooglins is offline
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It bugs me when quotes are taken out of context. (I have been guilty of the same in the past, but now try very hard not to do this as it is not fair to the OP). I never said a carbon fiber guitar could not be acoustic, I said if it sounded different than an acoustic guitar. I specifically said it may not be possible to get Carbon fiber to vibrate in a way that is similar to wood. You will notice that the last line of my post (that was inexplicably left out in several quotes) said:

Quote:
Carbon fiber guitars could be another, but the jury is still out as to if they can be built in a way that still sounds like an acoustic guitar. I believe they might eventually solve this, but it may not be possible. Carbon fiber may not be able to vibrate in a way that is similar enough to wood no matter how much effort is put into design. If that is the end result then the carbon fiber guitar will be something different, but still worthwhile.
I am not sure how adding braces to a very stiff material allows the material to vibrate enough to create a sound that is not stiff, but perhaps it is possible and I have not tried a model that had the bracing. I have tried both the Rainsong line and the CA line, and in fact missed out on the purchase of a GX performer by 5 minutes that I wanted badly, but it did not play like a traditional acoustic, and sounded quite different. I liked its plugged in sound, and wanted a guitar that would be durable regardless of where I took it and it would have met that need very well (it was also priced at an almost giveaway price which helped motivate me).
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