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  #16  
Old 01-12-2015, 07:28 PM
MarvinLee MarvinLee is offline
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Doug,

Thanks for the feedback.

I've considered adding a TC Helicon to the signal path (got one laying around). Might you know of a smaller form factor device (preferably DC powered) that might work for this?
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  #17  
Old 01-12-2015, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MarvinLee View Post
Doug,

Thanks for the feedback.

I've considered adding a TC Helicon to the signal path (got one laying around). Might you know of a smaller form factor device (preferably DC powered) that might work for this?
There are lots of hardware reverb pedals, I dont know enough of them to recommend anything, but since you're recording, why not add it afterwards? Do you record your audio into something so you can process it on a computer? Adding EQ, reverb, compression, etc might get you closer to the other video - it's surely being treated like any studio recording. It's almost always better to do this stuff afterwards, where you can listen and tweak, rather than being stuck with effects added at record time - you might do the performance of a lifetime, only to discover any effects in your signal path were wrong.
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  #18  
Old 01-12-2015, 09:23 PM
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Hi MarvinLee,

Check out this article for some ideas.

http://www.recordingmag.com/resource...etail/253.html


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I am ignorant to all things ribbon. Perhaps you could specify a few well regarded ones that I might look into?
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  #19  
Old 01-12-2015, 10:21 PM
Fran Guidry Fran Guidry is offline
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Does anyone have any info on this production? Identify this mic?

This sound of this is what I'm talking about. It is quite lush.

Anyone have any experience with mics that have similar qualities?

Once again, it's not the mic making the sound you're hearing. The sound is the performance, the mic position, and the post production (reverb, delay, EQ, and compression). Any one of dozens of different mics could have been used with essentially the same result.

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Think modern day WPA recordings, if you will. Basically, what would John Lomax use today if he were documenting music?
Please take a fresh listen to some John Lomax recordings. If he were recording today with the same aesthetic, documenting music, his recordings would have 20-20k hz frequency response and little or no self-noise, since he'd be using modern gear. But the production would be bone dry and have either a small room or outdoors ambience. His recordings would sound _nothing_ like the Amos Lee track.

Presumably you're editing your video somehow, even if it's just to trim heads and tails, yes? Many video editors include audio tools like delay, EQ, and reverb.

Fran
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  #20  
Old 01-12-2015, 10:57 PM
MarvinLee MarvinLee is offline
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Interesting comment Fran. I wonder if Lomax would have used compression or eq of some sort if it were readily available? I guess that's one of the notions that crossed my mind when I saw the Amos Lee video. I guess the simple question of "what mic do you recommend" spins off into a lot of tangents (which I really love to ponder).

As to your question regarding whether I have access to video editing gear... well, yeah.... it's what I've done for a living for 28 years :-)

That's one of the reason's that I'm heading down this road. Trying to come up with a VERY rapidly deployable audio solution for a video set up. The area I live in is rapidly becoming a mecca for songwriters (google 30A Songwriters Festival) and I'm already seeing an impact on the local music scene. I'm really wanting to be equipped to document some of what is happening.

I do realize that in many ways, a single mic approach can be just as complex as any multi-track solution, and perhaps I'm a bit caught up in the nostalgia of it, but I really think there is a certain clarity (esoterically speaking) that is infused when this approach is taken. The more I read your website, and comments, the more it comes to me that the mic doesn't matter so much (after a certain point).

BTW Fran, really like your web site. Would have taken a lot longer to find that one if I hadn't posted here. That alone was worth the post.
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  #21  
Old 01-13-2015, 07:47 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Hello Marvin,

One mic solutions are very effective, but placement and performance balance are especially crucial. I've experimented with this a lot.

Watching your video and Amos Lee's, Lee has the mic out front, while you have it from above. From above works, but there's less chest tone from you and even less proximity effect on your guitar.

Notice Lee's mic is angled down slightly, presumably to better capture the guitar. It's just that sort of wiggle-waggle that's required to get the right mix. You'll probably find that duplicating his exact positioning won't work for you because you're not him and the mics and guitars are not the same.

But pulling the mic down a bit will make you sound warmer because the mic will be picking up more chest and if it is closer, you'll get some low end from proximity effect. Need more "warm?" Add some EQ around 80-125 Hz.

Audio Technica has two mics you might enjoy more, the AT5040 and the AT 4080. I have links to each of my reviews there for you.

About "wide", adding some stereo reverb will give you width. I use two reverbs in post; a short one and a long one. They combine to make a very smooth and wide feel.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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  #22  
Old 01-13-2015, 08:18 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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I'm with what the guys above suggest - post-recording production. It's all very well to have a video 'ready to go', but in fact the pros process, then deliver. If it's a 'live' broadcast, the sound is dialed in ahead of time, rather than post-recording.
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  #23  
Old 01-13-2015, 08:20 AM
MarvinLee MarvinLee is offline
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Ty Ford....

Thank you for such an informative post!

I will take your suggestions and re-do this as you describe. I'll post an update when I get it there.

I've come to realize from the comments that perhaps I should focus on technique a bit more prior to any contemplation of equipment acquisition.

That said, thanks for the mic suggestions. I'll keep them on the list for later.

You guys are amazing!
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  #24  
Old 01-13-2015, 08:30 AM
MarvinLee MarvinLee is offline
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MikeBmusic

I think you are right, post production is preferred for this, will do an experiment today sometime.

Hmmm, the more I talk this out here, the more I am coming to realize I seem to be putting together an acoustical music audio package for EFP.

Would anyone have an opinion on the durability of one of these condenser (or ribbon) mics in regards to doing video field production with it?

I know that they have long had a reputation for fragility, but I assume the modern ones are at least a BIT more robust than say, the older classics?
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  #25  
Old 01-13-2015, 09:16 AM
Trevor B. Trevor B. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinLee View Post
Would anyone have an opinion on the durability of one of these condenser (or ribbon) mics in regards to doing video field production with it?

I know that they have long had a reputation for fragility, but I assume the modern ones are at least a BIT more robust than say, the older classics?
Hello again, Marvin. I don't have a ribbon mic and have avoided them because of the fragility factor you allude to above. Using one for field production seems especially chancy to me. That said, here's a video you may or may not be aware of in which a particular Audio-Technica ribbon mic seems to confirm your assumption re: modern ones being sturdier. It would be great to get some feedback on this from some of the other more qualified posters here on the AGF.

Trevor
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  #26  
Old 01-13-2015, 09:35 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Hey Trevor,

I reviewed the 4080 and really liked it. The biggest surprise was that it's as sensitive as an AKG C414. That means you don't have to use as much preamp gain that results in noise unless you have a loud source, like a guitar amp.

Again, here's a link to my review and there are links in the review to sound files. The one that you'll like most is Mike White and Dave Matheiss recording one of Mike's originals here at my studio. I used two AT4080 in Blumlein and moved Mike and Dave around until I got the right mix and then hit the button. I added a little EQ, reverb and limiting to the two-track recording andů..done!

Regards,

Ty Ford
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  #27  
Old 01-13-2015, 10:10 AM
MarvinLee MarvinLee is offline
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Thanks Ty, got your book on the way. Just what I was looking for (but never knew existed!).

Many, many thanks for your post.
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  #28  
Old 01-13-2015, 10:13 AM
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I don't understand the talk of using a ribbon mic for the OPs application, which I thought was quick setup live recordings. Won't the polar pattern of the ribbon mic, picking up sounds from the rear, have a negative impact on what he is trying to do?
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  #29  
Old 01-13-2015, 10:26 AM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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I don't understand the talk of using a ribbon mic for the OPs application, which I thought was quick setup live recordings. Won't the polar pattern of the ribbon mic, picking up sounds from the rear, have a negative impact on what he is trying to do?
Agreed, I like ribbons, but I don't see them as addressing Marvin's needs, either the ones he's stating, or the video he wants to sound like.

Marvin, check your PMs if you haven't.
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  #30  
Old 01-13-2015, 10:34 AM
Trevor B. Trevor B. is offline
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Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
Hey Trevor,

I reviewed the 4080 and really liked it. The biggest surprise was that it's as sensitive as an AKG C414. That means you don't have to use as much preamp gain that results in noise unless you have a loud source, like a guitar amp.

Again, here's a link to my review and there are links in the review to sound files. The one that you'll like most is Mike White and Dave Matheiss recording one of Mike's originals here at my studio. I used two AT4080 in Blumlein and moved Mike and Dave around until I got the right mix and then hit the button. I added a little EQ, reverb and limiting to the two-track recording and…..done!

Regards,

Ty Ford
Hello Ty, Thanks for sharing the links. Your review of the AT4080 is both informative and (with the sound clips) really enjoyable. While the Madrigal Singers are closer to my musical practice I found the song "Living Will" moving and relevant for those of us now in the final chapter. BTW-Great job on the recording/production side. Both recordings I listened to sounded warm and natural. You give legs to the old adage "less is more".
Just one question (that may betray my ignorance but here goes). By Blumlein are you referring to M/S mic placement and configurations? If so, I was under the impression that the mid mic had to be set to cardioid and only the side to figure-eight. If there's an explanation that won't bury me in technical terms I'd be very interested in reading it.
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