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  #1  
Old 10-06-2014, 10:58 PM
anton anton is offline
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Default Getting a wider stereo image

Hi Folks,

Have not posted here in quite some time.

After listening to Doug's Zoom comparison it reminded me I would like to try to get a wider stereo image when recording solo guitar. Here is my latest effort.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../anton_ADK.mp3

Setup is two ADK A6's about 15 inches apart on a stereo bar. The mics are about level with the top edge of the guitar and the sound hole is pointed at the center between the two mics. They are probably about a foot from the guitar. Interface is a Presonus firestudio mobile into Logic X on an iMac. I had a pair of broadband panels setup in a V behind the mics, and few more around the room.

Thanks for any input.

Anton
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Old 10-07-2014, 01:54 AM
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Move the mikes further apart. Also the clarity is reduced a little from proximity to the sound hole.

However width can be increased post recording to various degrees.
I took your clip and played with it.

Here is the results: http://dcoombsguitar.com/Misc/Anton.mp3

First two measures as it was.
Then added a little delay to one side at 7 seconds.
Two measured later add some equalization to try and clean up the lower frequencies a bit at 15 seconds.
Then a little later added reverb at 23 seconds, later switched reverb at 45 seconds, later switch reverb at 60 seconds, and later went back to the first reverb at 75 seconds for the remainder of the tune.
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Last edited by rick-slo; 10-07-2014 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 10-07-2014, 05:06 AM
louparte louparte is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Move the mikes further apart. Also the clarity is reduced a little from proximity to the sound hole.

However width can be increased post recording to various degrees.
I took your clip and played with it. See link below.
First two measures as it was.
Then added a little delay to one side.
Two measured later add some equalization to try and clean up the lower frequencies a bit.
Then a little later added reverb, later switched reverb, later switch reverb, and later went back to the first reverb.

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Misc/Anton.mp3
I agree with that. It's a beautiful piece of music - beautifully-played.
Guitar sounds very good. It could have more sparkle, more clarity.

Have you tried a Blumlein placement?



My next mic will be a CAD 179. Here's a pair using Blumlein.



A few technques including Blumlein.

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Last edited by louparte; 10-07-2014 at 05:24 AM.
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:49 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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You're never going to get a highly-separated 'stereo' image from a single guitar, you're just going to get more "room" in the sound.

Edited to add:

Think of putting your head betwen the mics - how different would be the sound you hear in each ear? Move the mics further apart - just like moving your head more to one side or the other, the difference you hear in each ear is more in how the sound is getting out into the room. If you get closer to the guitar, then you would be picking up more 'neck sound' or more 'body sound', of course.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:45 AM
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Thanks folks.

Yea I would like more clarity in my sound. I recorded my first CD at Doug's and one of things he mentioned was having to boost the highs. I have been playing around changing my picking hand position, having the tips of the nails more parallel with the strings. That seems to have helped a bit, though I am still dealing with some nail noise on the wound strings.

When I compare my recording to Doug's Zoom demo posted recently, i can distinctly hear a wider stereo spread, with more separation between the left and right channels.

I was wondering maybe if some sort of internal routing in Logic set wrong. I usually record both mics to one stereo track. If I understand correctly Logic should pan Mic 1 hard left, and Mic 2 hard right? If I tap on one mic I hear the sound more up the middle, not distinctly in one side of my headphones.

Anton
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anton View Post
Thanks folks.

Yea I would like more clarity in my sound. I recorded my first CD at Doug's and one of things he mentioned was having to boost the highs. I have been playing around changing my picking hand position, having the tips of the nails more parallel with the strings. That seems to have helped a bit, though I am still dealing with some nail noise on the wound strings.

When I compare my recording to Doug's Zoom demo posted recently, i can distinctly hear a wider stereo spread, with more separation between the left and right channels.

I was wondering maybe if some sort of internal routing in Logic set wrong. I usually record both mics to one stereo track. If I understand correctly Logic should pan Mic 1 hard left, and Mic 2 hard right? If I tap on one mic I hear the sound more up the middle, not distinctly in one side of my headphones.

Anton
That's all I do, Anton. Those Zoom demo clips were spaced pairs about 13 inches apart. Run them into a stereo track in Logic, which puts each mic hard left and right. I sometimes will use an MS tool to adjust the stereo image, but I didn't do any processing at all to to those Zoom clips. I've never used any of the delay tricks Rick demo'd. Blumlein is a nice technique (you need figure 8 mics for the original Blumlein), but it's basically X/Y, and will usually be a narrower, tho perhaps more natural, sound than spaced pairs.
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:22 AM
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Yea, i am not hearing each mic hard left and right, at least when I tap on them with my headphones on. It sounds more straight up the middle, is that normal?

Anton
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:47 AM
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I guess it could be because both mics are on one stand, and when I tap one the other picks it up. Perhaps Ill try it on separate stands.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anton View Post
I guess it could be because both mics are on one stand, and when I tap one the other picks it up. Perhaps Ill try it on separate stands.
You should definitely be able to hear each mic in just one channel, tho there's going to be some bleed (one mic can also pick up the sound of you tapping on the other). You can always unplug one mic and verify the other is only coming into one channel. If it's not totally isolated, there may be something going on with your interface (I forget what you have)
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Old 10-07-2014, 01:22 PM
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Mikes are panned though can't be sure 100%. IMO your mikes were too close and too pointed toward the soundhole of the guitar. Get a mike stand for each mike and have at it experimenting for a more crystal clear sound.

Here is a clip, first as was, then where I equalized some fog out (still was some of course), and finally added some reverb. The DAW pic is below that.

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Misc/Anton2.mp3
'
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Old 10-07-2014, 02:22 PM
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Thanks Rick and Doug. Ill give that stuff a try and post another example.
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:44 PM
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Rick, your Digicheck image is of his original recording? That's a pretty narrow image, looks like XY (and even narrow for that), not spaced pairs.
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Old 10-07-2014, 04:43 PM
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Rick, your Digicheck image is of his original recording? That's a pretty narrow image, looks like XY (and even narrow for that), not spaced pairs.
Here is an image from another point in time in the recording (no changes made by me).
It was at a point where one of the higher pitched notes was played. The recording has
mostly lower frequency content (as you can see in the spectrum picture above the higher
frequencies, presence and air, are lacking) which is most likely the main reason the
correlation is generally high between right and left channels
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Last edited by rick-slo; 10-07-2014 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:37 PM
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Well i figured out why i wasnt hearing one mic in my left ear and one in my right. The outputs from Mic 1 and 2 on my interface's virtual mixer were set to the middle, so i guess i was hearing everything in mono. I dont think that should affect was is being recorded into Logic, right?

Thanks for that analysis rick, I really need to figure out how to get more high frequency content in my recordings and tone.

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Old 10-07-2014, 10:53 PM
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anton View Post
Well i figured out why i wasnt hearing one mic in my left ear and one in my right. The outputs from Mic 1 and 2 on my interface's virtual mixer were set to the middle, so i guess i was hearing everything in mono. I dont think that should affect was is being recorded into Logic, right?
The recording itself would not be affected by your output settings.
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