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  #16  
Old 08-02-2013, 09:57 AM
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Larry Pattis Larry Pattis is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeCharter View Post
<<snip>>

As for the jumbo Guilds, they strike me as being better suited for strummers.

<<snip>>

I had a late '60s 212XL that was a *tremendous* fingerstyle-only guitar. Huge sound.

If I were in the market for a custom-built trad 12 string I would go right to Haans.
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  #17  
Old 08-02-2013, 09:58 AM
keyshore keyshore is offline
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Joe,

If it's a 12 string custom built that you are looking for, the only person who comes to my mind is John Ostoff. He has build a remarkable 12 stringer for Kevin A. It looks really good.

I had even called up Kevin to talk about the guitar and he told it looks and sounds spectacular.

Best,

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  #18  
Old 08-02-2013, 10:02 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Have we discovered what the OP means by "traditional" 12 string ?

I have a Del'Arte (kinnard) replica of the Stella Leadbelly - 26.5" scale tuned to B or C- (which is for sale in the UK)_

and I have a Martin Custom D12-20 which floats my boat.
I would consider them both pretty traditional - but - what is your definition OP?
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  #19  
Old 08-02-2013, 10:32 AM
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I'm curious because I genuinely don't know, what is the hallmark of a traditional sounding 12 string?
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  #20  
Old 08-02-2013, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Pattis View Post
If I were in the market for a custom-built trad 12 string I would go right to Haans.
+1, ^What Larry said^
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  #21  
Old 08-02-2013, 10:45 AM
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Traditional 12 strings have a very strong, fundamental, room filling tone. It's a punchy sound compared to the modern "harpy" sound. Most all are ladder braced or some sort of ladder/tone bar bracing like Holzapfels. They sport cables instead of strings and tune down to as far as A. Stellas, Holzapfels or Vegas are mostly the ones to turn to. Mahogany is the back of choice, but white oak works too. I like sapele. Rosewood doesn't work well as there are too many overtones. Overtones make a 12 string really "harpy" sounding, and that is the modern 12 string tone. Red spruce is also the wood of choice as it is powerful and has the headroom.
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  #22  
Old 08-02-2013, 10:51 AM
Bluemonk Bluemonk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeCharter View Post

As for the jumbo Guilds, they strike me as being better suited for strummers
Tell that to Ralph Towner.
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  #23  
Old 08-02-2013, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haans View Post
Traditional 12 strings have a very strong, fundamental, room filling tone. It's a punchy sound compared to the modern "harpy" sound. Most all are ladder braced or some sort of ladder/tone bar bracing like Holzapfels. They sport cables instead of strings and tune down to as far as A. Stellas, Holzapfels or Vegas are mostly the ones to turn to. Mahogany is the back of choice, but white oak works too. I like sapele. Rosewood doesn't work well as there are too many overtones. Overtones make a 12 string really "harpy" sounding, and that is the modern 12 string tone. Red spruce is also the wood of choice as it is powerful and has the headroom.
That's really helpful. I've always admired your work, Haans. Those old school designs are really striking visually. I'd love to get a chance to play your guitars one of these days.
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  #24  
Old 08-02-2013, 11:18 AM
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Saw a post on UMGF some time ago on a player out of Australia, I believe. He had Martin do a custom one of a kind D12-20 that was quite amazing. Martin hasn't made this guitar in many years, but will apparently work with customers on this kind of individualized instrument. Just wanted to mention that. ( the D12-20 is a 12 fret slope shouldered dread). Very traditional guitar.
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  #25  
Old 08-02-2013, 11:18 AM
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A few fingerstyle players play Guild 12 jumbos.

James Blackshaw being the most revered modern player. Chuck Johnson is very special too. Glenn Jones & Jack Rose (RIP) favoured Taylor Jumbo 12's.

For a 'traditional'/vintage luthier built 12, I'd go for Haans Brentrup.
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  #26  
Old 08-02-2013, 11:47 AM
JoeCharter JoeCharter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Pattis View Post
I had a late '60s 212XL that was a *tremendous* fingerstyle-only guitar. Huge sound.

If I were in the market for a custom-built trad 12 string I would go right to Haans.
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Originally Posted by Bluemonk View Post
Tell that to Ralph Towner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ewh2 View Post
A few fingerstyle players play Guild 12 jumbos.

James Blackshaw being the most revered modern player. Chuck Johnson is very special too. Glenn Jones & Jack Rose (RIP) favoured Taylor Jumbo 12's.

For a 'traditional'/vintage luthier built 12, I'd go for Haans Brentrup.
Guys, I'm not picky about what to play with what -- and I actually still have the receipt for the F412 I purchased a couple of years ago. While I was paying for the guitar, the sales guy tried to remove the security device and he scratched the headstock (pretty badly).

I have since acquired an H&D and I like the more focused sound that I get from it.

I was just thinking out loud about the way that I feel about Guild jumbos and what I feel motivated to play when I pick one up -- not talking absolutes.
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  #27  
Old 08-02-2013, 11:48 AM
JoeCharter JoeCharter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
Have we discovered what the OP means by "traditional" 12 string ?

I have a Del'Arte (kinnard) replica of the Stella Leadbelly - 26.5" scale tuned to B or C- (which is for sale in the UK)_

and I have a Martin Custom D12-20 which floats my boat.
I would consider them both pretty traditional - but - what is your definition OP?
Both cool suggestions, thank you.
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  #28  
Old 08-02-2013, 11:50 AM
JoeCharter JoeCharter is offline
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Originally Posted by islandguitar View Post
Saw a post on UMGF some time ago on a player out of Australia, I believe. He had Martin do a custom one of a kind D12-20 that was quite amazing. Martin hasn't made this guitar in many years, but will apparently work with customers on this kind of individualized instrument. Just wanted to mention that. ( the D12-20 is a 12 fret slope shouldered dread). Very traditional guitar.
I was unaware of this particular model. Looks very interesting -- thanks.
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  #29  
Old 08-02-2013, 11:54 AM
JoeCharter JoeCharter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nacluth View Post
Here's the link of Bob playing his Kinnaird 12-string.

Edit: Here's some sound clips of Bob playing (finger style) his 12-string.

Lutz/Myrtle 12-string clip#1

Lutz/Myrtle 12-string clip#2
Thanks for the links, Ryan.

Your 12-string headstock looks really good. Just the right balance of original and classic lines.
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  #30  
Old 08-02-2013, 11:59 AM
JoeCharter JoeCharter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haans View Post
Traditional 12 strings have a very strong, fundamental, room filling tone. It's a punchy sound compared to the modern "harpy" sound. Most all are ladder braced or some sort of ladder/tone bar bracing like Holzapfels. They sport cables instead of strings and tune down to as far as A. Stellas, Holzapfels or Vegas are mostly the ones to turn to. Mahogany is the back of choice, but white oak works too. I like sapele. Rosewood doesn't work well as there are too many overtones. Overtones make a 12 string really "harpy" sounding, and that is the modern 12 string tone. Red spruce is also the wood of choice as it is powerful and has the headroom.
I don't think I'm a fan of any particular 12-string player/sound. I do think Stellas look cool but I don't think I ever seriously auditioned one, not even on recording.

I also do not have much of a 12-string repertoire -- therefore the music will come from the guitar.

As for tone woods, I find I am not as sensitive as most players -- so I usually go with looks/tradition/prestige.
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