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  #46  
Old 12-07-2009, 03:58 AM
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I know this topic offends people, but I have to agree with you Christian.

I think of music as a creative art like all the other arts. I can't imagine a writer taking a great novel like "For Whom The Bells Toll" and rewriting it and changing it to suit his taste and then having someone read it; or even a painter taking Van Gogh's "Sunflowers" and repainting it by changing some colors and then displaying it somewhere with pride, but this seems to happen all the time with music, and not too many people complain about it.

I understand that a good method for improving one's own skills in the arts is to take someone you admire and try to imitate him or her, but in every art, except music it seems, these are just viewed as practice or exercises that you wouldn't want anyone to see, read or hear.

The arts are self-expression aren't they? And even if you were to add your own spin to someone else's song it seems that you're just expressing another artist's work and ideas in a different way. I don't believe that just being able to play someone's song on a guitar makes that person an artist, or even a musician, but just a work in progress. I couldn't embarrass myself like that. JMHO.
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  #47  
Old 12-07-2009, 06:45 AM
Bob1131 Bob1131 is offline
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I think of music as a creative art like all the other arts. I can't imagine a writer taking a great novel like "For Whom The Bells Toll" and rewriting it and changing it to suit his taste and then having someone read it; or even a painter taking Van Gogh's "Sunflowers" and repainting it by changing some colors and then displaying it somewhere with pride, but this seems to happen all the time with music, and not too many people complain about it.JMHO.
I understand your perspective, Player, but you are comparing apples to oranges; both are fruits but very different. The arts, similarly, are comprised of very different segments; literature, poetry, visual arts and performing arts. In performing arts, new renditions and adaptations are common and are as creative and legitimate art as the originals on which they are based. There are many plays based on or modeled after Shakespeare's plays, and a lot of so-called original songs have their roots in passages and movements from classic works. Even in the visual arts, there are movies based on books (isn't that retelling the story with some changes?), and paintings modeled after other paintings. As artists and art evolve, it is only natural to revisit old works to give them new life.

Just as a great dancer is not necessarily a good choreographer, a great musician is not necessarily a good songwriter or composer. And of course, there are great song writers who are lousy musicians and singers!!! However, all are artists. I think many people mistake creativity for art. Art is expression, but it does not always have to be creative.
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  #48  
Old 12-07-2009, 09:24 AM
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You make good points Bob, and thankyou for your reply.

In the sense that music is a "performance art," the performance itself is art even if it's another artist's creation. Yes, good point! Even though I defer to that, to me, "true art" dwells in the creation of original material, original songs, and I will always hold a musician/ artist who creates his own material a notch above an artist who doesn't and only performs, no matter how brilliant the performance may be. In fact I will always hold an original creation artist above a brilliant performer even if the original artist is not a great or good performer. I don't think I'm alone feeling this way, but if I am so be it. But your point is well-taken and appreciated. Thanks again!
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  #49  
Old 12-07-2009, 09:57 AM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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So do you think Eric Clapton is a fool for playing covers ??

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  #50  
Old 12-07-2009, 10:13 AM
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djwayne, I don't think he's a fool because if he didn't play covers he wouldn't have too many good songs of his own to play. Clapton is obviously a great guitarist. No question about that.
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  #51  
Old 12-07-2009, 10:24 AM
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I mostly agree.

Any cover gets compared to the original and 99.9% of the time the original is better. But there is nothing "wrong" with playing covers, it's still music.

I mostly do originals and love the feedback and it has generated work occasionally. Also Youtube for me allows me to easily share my music with friends and family back home. When I do a cover it is not note for note, not even close, I add transition chords and will change the style of playing to have some personal touch.

I do see many Youtubes and think why are they posting this really bad stuff, we all know what a new player sounds like, wait until you have some chops, but to each his own.
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  #52  
Old 12-07-2009, 11:06 AM
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"I don't believe that just being able to play someone's song on a guitar makes that person an artist, or even a musician, but just a work in progress. I couldn't embarrass myself like that. JMHO."




So playing covers means you're not an artist or musician just a work in progress ?? Clapton is a work in progress ?? hahahahaha.

So playing covers embarrasses you ?? I think you're taking it all way to seriously. Music is a form of entertainment. If it brings you or your listeners joy, then what's the problem with that ??
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  #53  
Old 12-07-2009, 11:51 AM
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djwayne, I was referring to a lot of the folks you see on youtube, unlike Clapton, that have never written a song or even brought their playing up to a decent level. The cover songs they play are sort of milestones along their musical journeys, sort of like the first or second drafts of a novel put on public display. There is nothing wrong with it really, it's just that it's not something I would want to do. I would feel embarrassed, just me I guess.

There are some outstanding performances on youtube also, but I wasn't referring to that.

Really, all my comments are just my own personal feelings. I know not everyone feels as I do.
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  #54  
Old 12-07-2009, 12:06 PM
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Well there's many guitar players better than me, so should I feel embarrassed to post my video's ?? I don't think so. It's all in fun. There may be some young player out there that can draw something from my efforts. Everybody is at different levels, and you can always learn something. Exactly at what point can you draw the line of who should post and who should not ?? Should a line be drawn at all ?? And who should draw the line ?? Does everyone have to meet a certain good looks standard ?? What about the Susan Boyle's of the world, should they not be allowed to sing ??
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  #55  
Old 12-07-2009, 12:29 PM
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djwayne, I was referring to a lot of the folks you see on youtube, unlike Clapton, that have never written a song or even brought their playing up to a decent level. The cover songs they play are sort of milestones along their musical journeys, sort of like the first or second drafts of a novel put on public display. There is nothing wrong with it really, it's just that it's not something I would want to do. I would feel embarrassed, just me I guess.

There are some outstanding performances on youtube also, but I wasn't referring to that.

Really, all my comments are just my own personal feelings. I know not everyone feels as I do.
In case you didn't know, the Rolling Stones only started writing their own music after they were getting very popular by playing only covers of American blues music. They felt like they were running out of material and the legend has it that they were locked in a kitchen together until they wrote a song of their own. The point is that they didn't get into music because they thought they should only perform originals, they did it because they loved a certain genre of music and just had a blast learning to play it and then finally performing it. Isn't that how most garage bands get started - some friends just want to reproduce the tunes that make them tingle? Also, getting back to the Stones and blues in general, "getting it right," as in precisely reproducing the original was never the intention...

Also, regarding literature, Homer's works are considered some of the greatest epics ever written, but it's doubtful that Homer was one person. It's more likely that the story was refined over the generations until it was finally written down. That might even be the case for some other famous and very, very influential works, but that is a case for the Loading Dock.
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  #56  
Old 12-07-2009, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by djwayne View Post
Well there's many guitar players better than me, so should I feel embarrassed to post my video's ?? I don't think so. It's all in fun. There may be some young player out there that can draw something from my efforts. Everybody is at different levels, and you can always learn something. Exactly at what point can you draw the line of who should post and who should not ?? Should a line be drawn at all ?? And who should draw the line ?? Does everyone have to meet a certain good looks standard ?? What about the Susan Boyle's of the world, should they not be allowed to sing ??
djwayne, I don't know if you should feel embarrassed, no idea.

It never occurred to me that I should teach other musicians or make them feel good about themselves if they realize that they play better than me. I'm not a music teacher. It seems an instructional video is one thing and a performance video is something different.

Well I certainly don't judge an artist's music by their looks. If an artist is attractive or eye candy then that's just a bonus above and beyond the music.

And yes, music should be fun, but what you might find to be fun I might find it to be something else. Different strokes . . . . FWIW.
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  #57  
Old 12-07-2009, 01:23 PM
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Tod, I don't think you would have ever heard of the Rolling Stones if they didn't write their own songs. They had to start somewhere before they realized that they would never amount to anything unless they learned how to express themselves with original music.
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  #58  
Old 12-07-2009, 01:32 PM
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Tod, I don't think you would have ever heard of the Rolling Stones if they didn't write their own songs. They had to start somewhere before they realized that they would never amount to anything unless they learned how to express themselves with original music.
But the point is that they weren't doing it so that I would know who they were 45 years later, they were doing it because it was fun and then one thing led to another. They might not have made it all if they formed a band with the concept that they would only perform originals, especially since they were not very experienced players when they started. Even if they had failed to produce original material and went on to other professional pursuits, they still would have participated in the music revolution in the 60s and had that to be proud of.
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  #59  
Old 12-07-2009, 01:43 PM
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But the point is that they weren't doing it so that I would know who they were 45 years later, they were doing it because it was fun and then one thing led to another. They might not have made it all if they formed a band with the concept that they would only perform originals, especially since they were not very experienced players when they started. Even if they had failed to produce original material and went on to other professional pursuits, they still would have participated in the music revolution in the 60s and had that to be proud of.
Fair enough Tod. Point taken. It worked-out well for them which is the exception not the rule.

Everyone has their own definition of what's fun and what's acceptable. I realize that I can only speak for myself.

Thanks, and have fun!
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  #60  
Old 12-07-2009, 02:18 PM
Christian Reno Christian Reno is offline
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It looks like there have been a few strawmen set up here. I didn't see anyone say that one should be embarrassed for any reason, or that one should not post on youtube unless it is original music, or unless they are "good", and no one insulted Clapton - that was a stretch.

This was simply a discussion of why people post what they post on youtube.
My opinion was that playing 'Freight Train' on youtube was very much like going into GC and playing 'Stairway'. It is just an opinion, not an affront.

It is fun to discuss, but I didn't want it to get personal. I am sorry if anyone
took it that way.

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