The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Electric Guitars

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-02-2019, 10:29 AM
ChrisN ChrisN is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 1,508
Default Strings are strings, aren't they?

My only experience was Ernie Ball Slinky 10-46 that came on my first electric - seemed fine to me (no experience) - I put them on the electrics to follow. No issues.

Later, I purchase a barely used Epi 339 P90 in blue that still had the factory strings - I've been playing it and saw no need to change the strings - the guitar felt great, but I couldn't tell you why - seemed to play with more control, it was more vibrant (vibrated more) plugged/unplugged than my Epi 339 w/HBs. I put it down to "I got a good one." It's light, too, at just under 6.5 lbs. But I wanted a black one.

Found a very used black 339 P90. Same guitar, but weighed over 7 lbs. Nowhere near as vibrant - felt smothered, quieter. I A/B'd those 2 guitars to death, and even the wife agreed the blue sounded better, brighter, louder, more alive. Huh. Let's try new strings (EBs) on the black one. That'll perk it up. Nope. Didn't sound much better, if at all. And the blue was still on its original strings that were by now 2 years old. Huh. I returned the black and kept the blue - no regrets.

Working through my "too many electrics" rotation, I notice again the blue sounds great, but after playing other semi-hollows/fully hollows/solids with similar pickups, scales, etc., I'm noticing the blue has a different string feel - firmer, less weak, more controllable, seems to hit harder when struck with same effort. Huh. Re-compared the blue to my known EB-strung guitars. Definitely a different feel to the blue. I wonder - maybe the blue has heavier gauge strings! That'd make a difference - where's that digital caliper?

Nope - found the Epi page for the 339 P90 - 10-46 gauge, just like the rest, which I measured to confirm. Huh. What's going on? Why does that guitar feel different, play better, and sound louder unplugged? Wait a minute - Epi says they use D'addario strings on their guitars. Could that be the difference? If so, it's significant, but I never hear/read about such profound differences between/among brands of strings.

So, am I out of my mind to think Ernie Ball Slinkies (which FEEL lighter and less controllable as a result) are not my string and that I should move to D'addario? Anyone have an info source on string brand differences? A new world has opened for me.

EDIT: Found a few posts around that seem to echo this:
I've switched from Ernie Ball to D'Addario. Here are my observations:

Ernie Ball: softer, more "slinky" feel, duller muted sound but warm. Wear out relatively quickly.

D'Addario: Last longer, have a stiffer feel, brighter.
That seems to sum up my conclusion. Who knew?

Last edited by ChrisN; 08-02-2019 at 10:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-02-2019, 11:43 AM
Marley Marley is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Selassieville
Posts: 1,032
Default

Although I don't mind EB slinkys, they are just too wet noodle like to me. I prefer D'Addario by far and I even love PRS strings which D'Addario makes. They always last a long time for me, even up to a year with heavy use but I wash my hands a lot before I pay and my hands let out none of the gunk other's do. That has to have more to do with longevity than the brand. I had a guy in one of the bands back in the day who's strings turned green after one use/show. In 31 years of playing, I've never seen the slightest hint of green one any string I've used.
__________________
I'm into acoustic guitars, MM & PRS, my kids, Technics decks, Titleist, Reggae music, KY Bourbon, fine rum and chrome pans from Trini.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-02-2019, 01:14 PM
jseth jseth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Oregon... "Heart of the Valley"...
Posts: 10,831
Default

It seems totally "out" to think that one brand's .012 gauge would be different than another brand's, but that really does seem to be the case... and it's not just chemical composition and metallurgy.

In one way, it's a very positive statement on the human ability to discern nearly microscopic size differential... I can certainly tell the difference between a .012 and a .011 string... easily, in fact. My hands can tell if a guitar has a slightly shorter scale, or even if wound strings "feel" differently...

Yes, strings are strings... BUT, it's the player's responsibility to find the ones that work for them... and I'd always say, "Trust yourself, first"...

If you get tired of re-stringing all those elctrics, Chris, you might want to give the Elixir electric strings a shot... I LOVE them, have them on my Gibson ES-345 (11's w/ a plain 3rd). They sound great, intonate well, and LAST FOREVER!!! I've had sets of Elixir electric strings on my Taylor T-5 and my Gibson for upwards of 5 years, easily, with no apparent loss of tone, appearance or stability... (disclaimer: I have not been using my electric guitars in any sort of band/regimented group play, so I am not as finicky with nuances of tone... if they sound good through my Deluxe Reverb, I'm good to go!)

I have a set of Elixir Optima electric strings to try, but have not done so as of yet. Apparently, they are "less-coated" than the Nanoweb electric strings, which are, in turn, "less-coated" than the Polyweb version...

You've probably noticed that many folks have vastly different tastes in "what makes good strings for them"... I know guys who are dedicated electric players, serious professionals and artists, who SWEAR that they don't change strings until they break one! Ry Cooder and David Lindley are both part of that set! And I know that I'm much more of a "cork-sniffer" when it comes to my acoustic guitars' strings and sounds... but there are guys like that with their electric strings, too... gotta change 'em every week. Different strokes...
__________________
"He's one of those who knows that life is just a leap of faith.
Spread your arms and hold your breath,
always trust your cape..."

"The Cape" (Guy Clark/Jim Janowsky/Susanna Clark)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-02-2019, 06:24 PM
Steel and wood Steel and wood is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,752
Default

I've just put my Telecaster in for a service/set up including new strings. (Wasn't fussed on what the brand was as long as they were 10's and said that they will be putting D'addario's on it which was fine by me as I've used them before).

I'm way less fussy about the strings on my electrics than I am on my acoustic where the tone difference is more discernible to me.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-02-2019, 06:43 PM
Revy Revy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 347
Default Strings

I have a 2011 Gibson 335 that I purchased over a year ago and the previous owner recommend using DR Blues. I bought three sets and tried them and I was almost to the point of selling the guitar. It was dull, lifeless, and less than impressive! I then bought a 2016 Gibson Les Paul Studio HP from a guy on Reverb. As a nice gesture he included a 3 pack of D'Addario NY XL strings. He said he did some work for a friend and they gave him a whole box of them so he through in a 3 pack since they were a different gauge than he used. I did some work on both guitars so it ended up I put a set on the LP and liked them. No super big difference but I liked them and thought they were a good string. I then worked on the 335 and put a set on it as well. I was absolutely floored! Night and day difference between the DR's and the D'Addario NY XL's. Bright, resonant, a completely different animal. It is now one of my favorite guitars and I'm so glad I kept it. I had no idea a set of strings could make that kind of difference. Apparently they're all not that way but these sure were!
__________________
1995 Collings D2H
Larrivee SD-60 12 String
2014 Martin D-18 Sunburst
2014 American Standard Telecaster (Maple Board)Mystic Blue
2008 Fender American Standard Telecaster (Rosewood Board)
1994 Fender 40th Anniversary Stratocaster Caribbean Mist
2011 Martin JC-16RE 50TH Anniversary
2004 Martin J-15
2011 Gibson ES-335 Cherry Red
1993 Continental TriCone
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-02-2019, 08:04 PM
Bob Womack's Avatar
Bob Womack Bob Womack is offline
Guitar Gourmet
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Between Clever and Stupid
Posts: 26,991
Default

There are two basic types of electric strings: Pure nickel steel strings and nickel-plated steel strings. Electric guitar makers originally spec'd pure nickel steel strings. Somewhere in the early '70s string makers were dealing with higher material costs and decided to cost save by making the strings out of steel and plating them with nickel. They did it without notifying anyone but players started noticing and went around buying up the original nickel steel strings. What is the difference? The nickel strings are warmer and the nickel-plated strings are brighter. Different guitars want different strings. Gibson ships ES-335s with nickel-plated steel "Brite Wires." They ship Les Pauls with "Vintage" pure nickel steel strings. They know the difference.

After that, you've got to make sure of individual string gauges. find a set that works for you and record the gauges. Buy sets with those gauges. Fender, for example, shipped two types of Extra Lights both , both labeled Extra lights. They had equal high E and B strings but from there the G and D on one were heavier. If you accidentally got the wrong ones and your guitar was sensitive to slight tension differences you had to tweak the truss rod.

Bob
__________________
"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' "
Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring

THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM (my website)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-02-2019, 11:09 PM
ChrisN ChrisN is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 1,508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
There are two basic types of electric strings: Pure nickel steel strings and nickel-plated steel strings. Electric guitar makers originally spec'd pure nickel steel strings. Somewhere in the early '70s string makers were dealing with higher material costs and decided to cost save by making the strings out of steel and plating them with nickel. They did it without notifying anyone but players started noticing and went around buying up the original nickel steel strings. What is the difference? The nickel strings are warmer and the nickel-plated strings are brighter. Different guitars want different strings. Gibson ships ES-335s with nickel-plated steel "Brite Wires." They ship Les Pauls with "Vintage" pure nickel steel strings. They know the difference.

After that, you've got to make sure of individual string gauges. find a set that works for you and record the gauges. Buy sets with those gauges. Fender, for example, shipped two types of Extra Lights both , both labeled Extra lights. They had equal high E and B strings but from there the G and D on one were heavier. If you accidentally got the wrong ones and your guitar was sensitive to slight tension differences you had to tweak the truss rod.

Bob
Hmmm - both the D'Addario and Ernie Ball are nickel-plated steel, so there's something else at work (in reality, or in my mind) that's making the difference I'm hearing/feeling (Marley and Revy clearly get it, too). I didn't know about the Vintage and pure vs plated thing though, so I added all of that to my stack of "too many variables to ever get this right".

I've seen the mix/match string gauge rabbit hole, but have avoided it thus far! Good old 10-46s for me, for now.

I also have a $100 Epi SL - a bolt-neck LP-shaped piece of poplar with a couple of cheap-but-sublime single coils (blasphemy!) - it's a real mutt, but I use it for kitchen and travel duty. Nice neck, too. It came with some weird strings that sounded/felt dead and had a kind of rough, almost gritty surface, like you couldn't easily slide due to the friction. They were grey, not silver colored. Guitar sounded dead when unplugged. BUT, I through a set of the Ernie Ball's on there and it sounds terrific unplugged - lots of tonal nuance at quiet volume. Next change I'll try the D'addarios, but I think it'd be hard to beat the Ernie Ball's on this particular guitar.

Last edited by ChrisN; 08-02-2019 at 11:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-02-2019, 11:14 PM
ChrisN ChrisN is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 1,508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jseth View Post
It seems totally "out" to think that one brand's .012 gauge would be different than another brand's, but that really does seem to be the case... and it's not just chemical composition and metallurgy.

In one way, it's a very positive statement on the human ability to discern nearly microscopic size differential... I can certainly tell the difference between a .012 and a .011 string... easily, in fact. My hands can tell if a guitar has a slightly shorter scale, or even if wound strings "feel" differently...

Yes, strings are strings... BUT, it's the player's responsibility to find the ones that work for them... and I'd always say, "Trust yourself, first"...

If you get tired of re-stringing all those elctrics, Chris, you might want to give the Elixir electric strings a shot... I LOVE them, have them on my Gibson ES-345 (11's w/ a plain 3rd). They sound great, intonate well, and LAST FOREVER!!! I've had sets of Elixir electric strings on my Taylor T-5 and my Gibson for upwards of 5 years, easily, with no apparent loss of tone, appearance or stability... (disclaimer: I have not been using my electric guitars in any sort of band/regimented group play, so I am not as finicky with nuances of tone... if they sound good through my Deluxe Reverb, I'm good to go!)

I have a set of Elixir Optima electric strings to try, but have not done so as of yet. Apparently, they are "less-coated" than the Nanoweb electric strings, which are, in turn, "less-coated" than the Polyweb version...

You've probably noticed that many folks have vastly different tastes in "what makes good strings for them"... I know guys who are dedicated electric players, serious professionals and artists, who SWEAR that they don't change strings until they break one! Ry Cooder and David Lindley are both part of that set! And I know that I'm much more of a "cork-sniffer" when it comes to my acoustic guitars' strings and sounds... but there are guys like that with their electric strings, too... gotta change 'em every week. Different strokes...
I didn't know Elixir made electric strings, so I'll check those out. I have a nice Taylor that came with Elixers (still on the original set). While I'm getting used them, I didn't like the Elixers at first because of the coating's feel. That was my first coated string experience and I didn't like the feeling that my fingers were rolling off the string tops. They sound great, though.

Today was quite an epiphany for me.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-03-2019, 09:40 AM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 4,888
Default

Congrats on the Epi 339 with P90s. I love the sound of mine. Subjectively mine feels like a medium weight.

A few notes on electric strings from my experience.

One thing we have to remember when we have a "I took the old strings Brand A off and then put on String B on" anecdote is that these two strings are at different portions in their life cycle. So new strings naturally will sound a bit brighter and more vibrant, even if they are the same brand with identical formulations.

I have a lot of electric guitars, widely different types. I string most of them with Ernie Ball .009 to .042 set Slinkys. I'm a mostly "lead" player who wiggles single strings much of the time, and my old fingers like bendy.

I have a small stock of the old pure nickel wrap old Fender .010 to .038 (super light low strings) which are great strings on a traditional Tele or Strat. There's something about pure nickel that those designs like, and having an easier to bend low strings works well for the Tele twang. These used to be my "standard string" before this unusual set of gauges and became hard to get. In the old days the Fender 150L was inexpensive and easy to find. Yes they are a bit "mellow" but a Tele and a Fender amp doesn't need any help in the brightness department.

I always keep a guitar or two with a .011 or even .012 set on it for when I want more of an acoustic guitar feel and resistance to heavy pick attack. I've never really settles on string set for those guitars. They may be D'addarios.

I keep a couple of shorter Gibson scale electrics with .010 to .046 sets, often Ernie Ball nickel plated steel.

I use Nanoweb or even Polyweb Elixirs on several electrics. I have a .010 set on my Jaguar, and the same set on a couple of Bigsby equipped guitars. I have a Bigsby Tele with Graphech saddles and the slippery coating and Teflon saddles reduce friction issues considerably. I also use Elixirs on my MIDI pickup guitars as you don't want to hear what string noise can do MIDI signal pickup. Yes, the slippery feel impacts sideways vibrato if you have a low action. If your action or fret height is such that you can get beside the string and/or use more than one finger this can be mitigated. Polyweb does take away a bit of zing on the wrapped strings, but this can actually be a nice, "partway to flat-wound" effect. Nanoweb sounds "normal" to me. I have a couple of packs of Optiweb, but haven't used them yet. I find the Elixir coating somewhat finger-tip friend thing too.

With enough gain and effects I don't think the impact of strings on sound is more or less nil (while what you like in terms of feel remains a factor). But played clean at lower volumes there that small timbral factor that some of us like to focus on.
__________________
-----------------------------------
Creator of The Parlando Project

Guitars: 20th Century Seagull S6-12, S6 Folk, Seagull M6; '00 Guild JF30-12, '01 Martin 00-15, '16 Martin 000-17, '07 Parkwood PW510, Epiphone Biscuit resonator, Merlin Dulcimer, and various electric guitars, basses....
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-03-2019, 11:34 AM
jseth jseth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Oregon... "Heart of the Valley"...
Posts: 10,831
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisN View Post
I didn't know Elixir made electric strings, so I'll check those out. I have a nice Taylor that came with Elixers (still on the original set). While I'm getting used them, I didn't like the Elixers at first because of the coating's feel. That was my first coated string experience and I didn't like the feeling that my fingers were rolling off the string tops. They sound great, though.

Today was quite an epiphany for me.
I know what you mean, Chris; Elixirs do have a slightly "slippery" feel to them... actually one of the reasons I love the strings... for sliding and doing glissando passages, there's little string noise and an ease to achieve the slides that work really well for both my electric and acoustic playing, especially the electric playing.

I figure I can always DIG IN when I want, but you can't always get a nice smooth feel with a lot of uncoated strings, particularly when they get a little funky and old....
__________________
"He's one of those who knows that life is just a leap of faith.
Spread your arms and hold your breath,
always trust your cape..."

"The Cape" (Guy Clark/Jim Janowsky/Susanna Clark)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-05-2019, 10:24 AM
ChrisN ChrisN is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 1,508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankHudson View Post
Congrats on the Epi 339 with P90s. I love the sound of mine. Subjectively mine feels like a medium weight.

A few notes on electric strings from my experience.

One thing we have to remember when we have a "I took the old strings Brand A off and then put on String B on" anecdote is that these two strings are at different portions in their life cycle. So new strings naturally will sound a bit brighter and more vibrant, even if they are the same brand with identical formulations.

I have a lot of electric guitars, widely different types. I string most of them with Ernie Ball .009 to .042 set Slinkys. I'm a mostly "lead" player who wiggles single strings much of the time, and my old fingers like bendy.

I have a small stock of the old pure nickel wrap old Fender .010 to .038 (super light low strings) which are great strings on a traditional Tele or Strat. There's something about pure nickel that those designs like, and having an easier to bend low strings works well for the Tele twang. These used to be my "standard string" before this unusual set of gauges and became hard to get. In the old days the Fender 150L was inexpensive and easy to find. Yes they are a bit "mellow" but a Tele and a Fender amp doesn't need any help in the brightness department.

I always keep a guitar or two with a .011 or even .012 set on it for when I want more of an acoustic guitar feel and resistance to heavy pick attack. I've never really settles on string set for those guitars. They may be D'addarios.

I keep a couple of shorter Gibson scale electrics with .010 to .046 sets, often Ernie Ball nickel plated steel.

I use Nanoweb or even Polyweb Elixirs on several electrics. I have a .010 set on my Jaguar, and the same set on a couple of Bigsby equipped guitars. I have a Bigsby Tele with Graphech saddles and the slippery coating and Teflon saddles reduce friction issues considerably. I also use Elixirs on my MIDI pickup guitars as you don't want to hear what string noise can do MIDI signal pickup. Yes, the slippery feel impacts sideways vibrato if you have a low action. If your action or fret height is such that you can get beside the string and/or use more than one finger this can be mitigated. Polyweb does take away a bit of zing on the wrapped strings, but this can actually be a nice, "partway to flat-wound" effect. Nanoweb sounds "normal" to me. I have a couple of packs of Optiweb, but haven't used them yet. I find the Elixir coating somewhat finger-tip friend thing too.

With enough gain and effects I don't think the impact of strings on sound is more or less nil (while what you like in terms of feel remains a factor). But played clean at lower volumes there that small timbral factor that some of us like to focus on.
"Clean and low volume" w/low action are what I'm about, as well. Thanks for your experienced input, which I'm filing away for future use.

As for the Epi 339 P90 - I'm not a huge fan of that "Slim Taper D" neck, but I love the rest of that guitar. I've also got a '18 Gibson 339 w/MHS HBs that is a little more "acoustic" when played unplugged due to lighter construction/finish, but I'd otherwise be hard pressed to choose between them, for what I do with them. The Gibson's "C"ish neck feels a little small, likely to curb neck dive with the lighter body. Trade offs, I suppose, but that Epi 339 P90 fills the bill! I tried one with HBs, but it was heavily built and I didn't care for the stock pickups.

Last edited by ChrisN; 08-05-2019 at 10:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-05-2019, 10:32 AM
ChrisN ChrisN is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 1,508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jseth View Post
I know what you mean, Chris; Elixirs do have a slightly "slippery" feel to them... actually one of the reasons I love the strings... for sliding and doing glissando passages, there's little string noise and an ease to achieve the slides that work really well for both my electric and acoustic playing, especially the electric playing.

I figure I can always DIG IN when I want, but you can't always get a nice smooth feel with a lot of uncoated strings, particularly when they get a little funky and old....
I just confirmed via the Taylor what you said - and you're right. Easier/quieter. They're more advanced strings than I am a player!
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Electric Guitars

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=