B string going flat

[JayBee1404]

Check out the Guild of American Luthiers Data Sheet #45 - a long-ish read, but much is explained, including the 2nd string conundrum.

http://drkevguitar.com/2012/04/04/tuning-data-sheet-45/

[b1j]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

Check out the Guild of American Luthiers Data Sheet #45 - a long-ish read, but much is explained, including the 2nd string conundrum.

http://drkevguitar.com/2012/04/04/tuning-data-sheet-45/

Wow. Precise instructions. I might try this once I print out the pdf. It seems less slavish to the electronic tuner.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by nickv6

I don't get the whole James T tuning thing. Here's why (only my reasoning and it turns out I'm fallible..)

First he says the vaguaries vary instrument to instrument...so,why would his adjustment work on my guitar?
Second he says watch me tune low e to minus 10. The machine shows a highly fluctuating cent measurement, noticably not on ten and he moves on. This is with every string!
Thirdly, any "sweetening" of an ET tuning is a move away from ET. So it may be excellent for playing in one shape (say d) but will be correspondingly sour in another shape. That's why ET is as it is, to allow playing in any key with acceptable dissonance.
I believe JT uses a capo and plays in the d shape alot. But if I don't?
Just my thoughts
Nick

Nick, this is all healthy skepticism. I noted those inconsistencies and omissions in James’s short video. But he’s a guy who has earned credibility with me, so I tried his method. I’m very careful to land on the cents targets as closely as possible. He didn’t slow down the video by insisting on that; he merely gave us the exact targets. It makes sense that he didn’t demonstrate the effectiveness by playing a little, because he didn’t fuss with the actual tunings.

All I can say is that I don’t have problems with the major thirds of E, A, C, and D chords when I hit the cent numbers he recommends. And in my experience, that is saying a lot.

[Tony Burns]

I actually tune the B a bit sharp - sounds better
not my favorite string ( is their one ? )

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by KevinH

That is a nice hat. And I'd really like to get a giant tuner like that.

Not sure if you were joking or not, but I’m pretty sure that’s just a handheld chromatic tuner with its image blown up via a video camera connected to a small TV. At around 5 minutes in, the tuner shuts off, and you can see JT’s assistant turn it back on off-camera. It looks a lot like a Seiko handheld tuner that I have:

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by sinistral

Not sure if you were joking or not, but I’m pretty sure that’s just a handheld chromatic tuner with its image blown up via a video camera connected to a small TV. At around 5 minutes in, the tuner shuts off, and you can see JT’s assistant turn it back on off-camera. It looks a lot like a Seiko handheld tuner that I have:

Love that they are both reading differently! It must be the magnetic aura of the BC picks that's thrown them off.

[Methos1979]

"It's always the B string..." That's the mantra in our acoustic duo (wife and I) for when I know it's time to change the strings.

A sure fire way to know it's time (when I've ignored the fact that they've started to sound quite dead for awhile) is when I find that I have to start tuning the B string every other song. I'll tune, play a song, do my 'tuning riff', notice something is off, tune again and sure as heck it's the B string that is off at which point I look at my wife and we both say, "It's always the B string..."

20 hours can be a lot of hours on a set of strings depending on how hard you play and what the strings are. It's also possible that your strings were 'old' in their package for a long while and of course maybe it's just a bad batch of B strings. Have you noticed the issue before? I'd change the strings and see if it happens again so quickly.

As for the problematic tuning issue, for me it's always been the low E. If tuned perfectly, the G always sounds awful (several cents sharp) when fretted at the third fret. So I always tune the low E a bit flat to compensate but you have to be careful because while tuning it flat makes the G chord sound great it can make the E chord sound awful. It's a delicate balance for sure.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

Love that they are both reading differently! It must be the magnetic aura of the BC picks that's thrown them off.

Haha, yeah, I noticed that, too, but they are actually closer than they appear. I plucked the A string of a guitar hanging on a rack near the tuners, and then took the picture. They were both oscillating between 1 - 2 cents sharp, but not in sync. I think the lights of the Korg are more accurate, but the readings of the meters are actually very, very close to each other.

[musicman1951]

Originally Posted by nickv6

I don't get the whole James T tuning thing. Here's why (only my reasoning and it turns out I'm fallible..)

First he says the vaguaries vary instrument to instrument...so,why would his adjustment work on my guitar?

Thirdly, any "sweetening" of an ET tuning is a move away from ET. So it may be excellent for playing in one shape (say d) but will be correspondingly sour in another shape. That's why ET is as it is, to allow playing in any key with acceptable dissonance.
I believe JT uses a capo and plays in the d shape alot. But if I don't?
Just my thoughts
Nick

It doesn't work for my guitar either. I think JT prefers a Kyser capo, which really pulls the low E string quite sharp. If you use that capo and his tuning you may well find happiness (as long as you don't play in the key of E with no capo). It's a little hard to believe there is a yolk style capo that pulls the low E string that sharp.

You lose me a bit when you get to acceptable dissonance. I can't play in G or A without sweetening the B string down a bit to keep those thirds from grating on my ears. But I agree that there is no perfect tuning system and a great many songs that refuse to stay within the three chord sweetened system.

JT's guitar sounds great, so I suspect we all need to find our own tuning system that works with our equipment.

Tuning a piano is a whole 'nother can of worms. A good tuner does not simply use a tuner to make each note compliant with equal temperament. They essentially sweeten the upper and lower extremes to please the ear.

[Purfle Haze]

Originally Posted by nickv6

I don't get the whole James T tuning thing...First he says the vaguaries vary instrument to instrument...so,why would his adjustment work on my guitar?

Nick, this is exactly right. One size does not fit all. If JT wears size 14 shoes, should everyone?

Originally Posted by b1j

Nick, this is all healthy skepticism. I noted those inconsistencies and omissions in James’s short video. But he’s a guy who has earned credibility with me, so I tried his method.

Did you catch what he says at 4:45 in his video? Ol’ JT says that his flattened tuning “compensates for the capo pulling the whole instrument sharp.”

Two years after JT recorded his tuning video, Peterson Strobe Tuners wrote on this page:

James Taylor sometimes played small coffee house gigs where having a guitar tech was not an option. Retuning his guitar himself between capo changes – while still managing to chat with the audience before segueing into the next tune – was often impossible, so he had to figure out a set of tuning offsets that progressively flattened the open strings as they went up in gauge and down in pitch. When a capo was applied, the strings were then pulled into tune, instead of beyond and ending up sharp, as they would when tuning without the Sweetener.

So, this tuning is meant to mitigate the sharpening effect of a capo. It is not intended for open strings. Using this tuning without a capo, the guitar just sounds out of tune to me.

Why do some players find the JT offsets to be better than ET? I have read that people tolerate flat notes better than sharp notes. Or, they think that if JT uses it, it’s gotta be good, right? It’s The Emperor’s New Tuner.

To the OP: sorry about your B string, it's always a stinker.

[Robin, Wales]

Another tuning trick:

Tune each string the way you are going to play it. So strike or pluck it with your flatpick, thumb pick, finger picks, bare fingers etc in your playing style. Strings do not vibrate elliptically; the pulse from the pluck/strike differes depending how and where it is played, and the pitch will oscillate a little differently.

Tuning a guitar is not an exact science, it's a compromise.

[KevinH]

Originally Posted by sinistral

Not sure if you were joking or not, but I’m pretty sure that’s just a handheld chromatic tuner with its image blown up via a video camera connected to a small TV....]

I should have put the smiley in. When I first saw it I thought it would make a good ad for a senior citizen guitar tuner (hey - I'm there!) sort of like the phones with giant buttons on them.

[KevinH]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

...Tuning a guitar is not an exact science, it's a compromise.

I saw a video of Leo Kottke sometime back. While he was tuning his guitar he said something like - a guitar tuner is a machine that gives you an opinion.

[SpruceTop]

The OP's post was about the B-string constantly going flat on him which would likely be a slipping B-string tuning machine (it happens), or B-string ball-end/bridgepin draw-up issue. The discussions about actually tuning a B-string so it harmonizes better with the other strings have been interesting, though.