Tube LDC’s: How Important is the Tube/Valve?

[gmel555]

Originally Posted by KevWind

If I were looking for a 47 type I would seriously consider ADK Z Mod 47 on sale At FRONT END AUDIO
https://www.frontendaudio.com/adk-z-...be-microphone/.....

The 251 which has just a bit more top end and air on it BUT I do have to EQ out some occasional sibilance on my vocals.....

Kev, well done!...and that 251 sounds quite good. Yes, I do hear some top end emphasis, but overall smooth (velvety), even & certainly strong presence. I'd think vocals recorded with it would stand out in most any mix. I'll look into the ADK and spend some time with more samples. (ADK has a nice online tool to hear the Mod 47 with diff tubes!) I also just noticed STAM is taking pre-orders for early January of SA-47s at a nice discount. I think they had some early delivery issues pre-covid, but I believe they're past that now. The SA-47 gets a fair amount of love on another forum. Not sure it's for me but yet another direction.

Jim, Pro Audio Tubes, sounds like a GREAT resource. Thx for passing that along.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by gmel555

I also just noticed STAM is taking pre-orders for early January of SA-47s at a nice discount. I think they had some early delivery issues pre-covid, but I believe they're past that now. The SA-47 gets a fair amount of love on another forum. Not sure it's for me but yet another direction.

I'm going to warn you off Stam. His delivery issues have been going on for years and there are still people who are waiting 2+ years for items they paid for. None of the delivery estimates on the website are even remotely accurate. Josh, the owner, lies to customers to string them along. Some people love the gear and are willing to wait, but he should be upfront about the waits and not engage as he does. The problems have not gone away. It appears the one change he's made is that he does a small run of a product upfront so he can send out a dozen or so and generate some positive comments in the forums. If you're not one of the lucky few though, you're going to wait a long time.

On top of the delivery issues, there's also a quality control issue. He has a lot of turnover with his assembly staff and that leads to hit-or-miss assembly quality. Because he's located in Chile, he has to contract with people in the US to take care of warranty issues. Who does those changes pretty frequently because of the volume involved. I don't think Josh is very honest with the repair people about the amount of work they should expect. Before the pandemic, he was contracting with the guy who owns Signal Art Electronics. I forget the owner's name but he was just doing it as a minor side gig but it turned out so much stuff was coming in that he couldn't put the necessary time into his own business. Someone who spoke with him about it said that the repairs were caused by poor assembly practices and that they were such simple things that they should have been caught before the units left the factory. My impression is that hasn't changed either.

In fairness, people do love the gear and say it sounds great. I just don't think it's worth the long wait and possible repair hassle to go that route. I'm saying that as someone who went down that road and bailed as the lies piled up.

[gmel555]

Thx Jim, I greatly appreciate your advice. You elaborated perfectly on what I meant when I said "not sure it's for me". While it sounds like the SA-57 is capable of outstanding results, for me making all around good and smart equipment decisions is important. While the performance of the equipment is a big consideration, ease of use and ease of purchase/repair/service/etc. is also important. I have no need/desire to go too far off the "main grid" on these purchases.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Just out of curiosity, do you know of a sub-$3k C12 clone that really does come close to the original? I haven't come across one yet so I don't know if it doesn't exist or if I've just missed it somehow.

Lawson L251, I love it. Here's my singing some snippets of covers through mine. U87ai and U89i on the guitar

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

Lawson L251, I love it. Here's my singing some snippets of covers through mine. U87ai and U89i on the guitar

The L251 is certainly a very nice mic but it's an ELA-M251 clone not an AKG C12 clone. I know there are many similarities between both mics but there are discernible differences as well and, as the name implies, Lawson was shooting for a sound a lot closer to the 251 than the C12.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by jim1960

The L251 is certainly a very nice mic but it's an ELA-M251 clone not an AKG C12 clone. I know there are many similarities between both mics but there are discernible differences as well and, as the name implies, Lawson was shooting for a sound a lot closer to the 251 than the C12.

here is an interesting article (from Mix magazine) on the history of both the C-12 and the ELAM 251

But in answer to your question (sort of because I do not know what a vintage c-12 sounds like or how close this ADK Z Mod 12 is ) and I know I am beginning to sound like a shill for ADK but it is basically sub $3k

https://www.frontendaudio.com/adk-z-...be-microphone/

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by KevWind

here is an interesting article (from Mix magazine) on the history of both the C-12 and the ELAM 251

But in answer to your question (sort of because I do not know what a vintage c-12 sounds like or how close this ADK Z Mod 12 is ) and I know I am beginning to sound like a shill for ADK but it is basically sub $3k

https://www.frontendaudio.com/adk-z-...be-microphone/

You forgot to link the article but I'm guessing it was this one.
Vintage Microphones, Part 3: AKG C-12, C-24 and Telefunken 250/251

And there's nothing wrong with shilling for a product you believe in.
I've said it before, I think ADK would get more attention and more sales if they didn't use the same generic shape (closer to a 251 than anything else judging by the photos) for all their high end mics. I understand that different shapes would add to the cost of production a bit but it wouldn't be much of an increase.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by jim1960

You forgot to link the article but I'm guessing it was this one.
Vintage Microphones, Part 3: AKG C-12, C-24 and Telefunken 250/251

And there's nothing wrong with shilling for a product you believe in.
I've said it before, I think ADK would get more attention and more sales if they didn't use the same generic shape (closer to a 251 than anything else judging by the photos) for all their high end mics. I understand that different shapes would add to the cost of production a bit but it wouldn't be much of an increase.

Opps my bad yes that article ,,, I better have another cup of coffee And I think we have discussed this ADK c12 before I remeber you had the same comment on the body shape ?

But Yes I have been thrilled with my ADK and for the OP's info,, I have had it 3 or 4 years and still have not had to replace the tube

Here is the latest video using it

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Opps my bad yes that article ,,, I better have another cup of coffee

Maybe with a little less Jameson this time.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Maybe with a little less Jameson this time.

ha ! yes to increase the high end response

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by jim1960

The L251 is certainly a very nice mic but it's an ELA-M251 clone not an AKG C12 clone. I know there are many similarities between both mics but there are discernible differences as well and, as the name implies, Lawson was shooting for a sound a lot closer to the 251 than the C12.

To me they are cut from the same cloth. My brother Tim owned an original C12 which I recorded a whole album with, and I can say the L251 is in the ballpark and a lot closer than many so called C12 repros. The C12 was a bit more scooped the L251 a bit more mids. Not Neumann forward, just a bit more mid. Of the two mics I prefer L251, as it works effortlessly on my voice, and many others that the Neumanns just don't work on. And I have the kit so I can always throw the L47 head on the tube body if I want a bit more of the Neumann sound

Here's a cheap C12 repro for ya (and 10% off more with the Black Friday discount code)...

https://www.frontendaudio.com/peluso...be-microphone/

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

To me they are cut from the same cloth. My brother Tim owned an original C12 which I recorded a whole album with, and I can say the L251 is in the ballpark and a lot closer than many so called C12 repros. The C12 was a bit more scooped the L251 a bit more mids. Not Neumann forward, just a bit more mid. Of the two mics I prefer L251, as it works effortlessly on my voice, and many others that the Neumanns just don't work on. And I have the kit so I can always throw the L47 head on the tube body if I want a bit more of the Neumann sound

Here's a cheap C12 repro for ya (and 10% off more with the Black Friday discount code)...

https://www.frontendaudio.com/peluso...be-microphone/

Interesting.. I think the Lawson 251 sounds just stellar on your voice.

A number of years ago I sang into a Lawson 47 cutting some demos @ Java Jive studio outside Nashville.. And it was a good mic, clean, and accurate, but honestly it was not overly impressive to me personally..
Here is my voice on that Lawson 47


As opposed to the ADK 251 (now obviously different situations and songs so a stretch -- BUT )

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Interesting.. I think the Lawson 251 sounds just stellar on your voice.

A number of years ago I sang into a Lawson 47 cutting some demos @ Java Jive studio outside Nashville.. And it was a good mic, clean, and accurate, but honestly it was not overly impressive to me personally..
Here is my voice on that Lawson 47


As opposed to the ADK 251 (now obviously different situations and songs so a stretch -- BUT )

It is a stretch but I prefer your voice on the L251 and I think the song is more in a range you enjoy singing. And the tone fits in the sparse arrangement of that song,

Although it sounded decent, the L47 was sitting a bit too high and clean in the busier mix. Maybe the mic really wasn't dialed in that day. Or it doesn't fir your voice!

[Cocobolo Kid]

I have a Rode K2. Has anyone tried upgrading the tube in their K2 with a NOS or other tube? If so, please let me know the results. I found an old Gearspace thread from 2012 but it was not very helpful.

Thanks!

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by Cocobolo Kid

I have a Rode K2. Has anyone tried upgrading the tube in their K2 with a NOS or other tube? If so, please let me know the results. I found an old Gearspace thread from 2012 but it was not very helpful.

Thanks!

We have 2 K2s at the studio with upgraded NOS Mullard tubes. I think they still sound cheap. The top end is just so harsh.

IMO its the capsule that needs to be upgraded. There’s nothing smooth about the stock capsule.