A Run on Waterloo Guitars

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by Rjlipton

I talked to Steve McCreary from Collings at the Fretboard Summit. He said they can’t keep the factory fully staffed and had to cut something, so Waterloo production has been slashed.

I've heard they've also stopped/greatly scaled back mandolin production for the same reason. The profit to production cost ratio is highest for the Collings guitars.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by Rjlipton

I talked to Steve McCreary from Collings at the Fretboard Summit. He said they can’t keep the factory fully staffed and had to cut something, so Waterloo production has been slashed. I would expect that it will go back up as they hire and train more people. I would also guess that their labor costs are going up as well. It takes time to train people.

I think that it was Steve McCreary who I was speaking to at the Fretboard Summit. I commented that they probably wouldn’t make many left-handed Waterloos going forward, and mentioned that I had left-handed versions of the WL-14 LTR and WL-S Deluxe TR. He agreed, noting that the left-handed WL-S Deluxe is very rare, so much so that he didn’t even recall the company making one. Definitely a keeper.

[thomasinaz]

Originally Posted by 29er

Nice pair. I have a WL-12 and the Jumbo King has had my attention for a while, although I've not been able to try a rosewood B/S model. The few mahogany models I've played were great but something tells me I'd dig a rosewood more. Do you have a favorite between the two?

I really can't decide which one I like best. It's funny that I bought each of them from the same guy, about 8 months apart. When I bought the second I was going to play them for a while and then sell the one I liked least. We see how that went... I sold the hog back to him after I bought another one of his guitars, then thankfully he offered it back to me. Yeah, I know what you all are thinking....

[thomasinaz]

Originally Posted by CopyCat

I’d also be interested in thoughts on the rosewood Jumbo King compared to mahogany. I have only played the mahogany version and love the clear, dry tone. Is the rosewood growlier in the bass? Just curious on how they differ.

I'm terrible with sound descriptions but here goes; The rosewood JK has a deeper, thicker sound. The hog is more treble and clear sounding. Both have a kind of old dry sound, I guess. They both have identical actions and play with the same feel, just slightly different sound qualities. I really like their semi-V neck shape, now my favorite neck type.

[Zissou Intern]

I truly hope Collings gets back to more significant levels of Waterloo production numbers.

[CopyCat]

Originally Posted by thomasinaz

I really can't decide which one I like best. It's funny that I bought each of them from the same guy, about 8 months apart. When I bought the second I was going to play them for a while and then sell the one I liked least. We see how that went... I sold the hog back to him after I bought another one of his guitars, then thankfully he offered it back to me. Yeah, I know what you all are thinking....

I don’t blame you a bit! I have a Waterloo (or two haha) I pulled back from potential sales.

[Bluenose]

Maybe I'll never get a chance to try out a Waterloo. I'll still watch Reverb though. Maybe in a year or two the market will be flooded with used Waterloos. I always thought the fingerpicking blues and ragtime type guitar was a niche market. Who knew?

[BluesKing777]

They were never making a huge amount of Waterloos.......there was an article in Acoustic Guitar a few years ago on Audrey Bartlett, department manager of Waterloo. She said there was a team of three, her building bodies plus admin, Greg Pauza building the necks, and Matt Duncan setting, fretting etc....

BluesKing777.

[drjond56]

Originally Posted by Bluenose

Maybe I'll never get a chance to try out a Waterloo. I'll still watch Reverb though. Maybe in a year or two the market will be flooded with used Waterloos. I always thought the fingerpicking blues and ragtime type guitar was a niche market. Who knew?

I bought my WL-K early in pandemic thinking of using it just for fingerstyle blues. BUT, turns out I am using it for much more than that — great for Celtic, open tunings, and even fingerstyle jazz. Turns out it is a surprising guitar. Perhaps others have noted that as well — hence the popularity.

Jon

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by Bluenose

I always thought the fingerpicking blues and ragtime type guitar was a niche market. Who knew?

What Bill and Waterloo taught the guitar industry was that a thinner finish equates to a more responsive guitar and a more open sound. Martin jumped right on it. Gibson is doing it. Collings does it also. They are promoting the thinner finished guitars as part of their traditional, vintage or authentic type guitars. As guitars age the finish changes and feels like it is much thinner. People like a pristine shinny guitar but thick finishes inhibit guitars sound.

[A.Wilder1]

Originally Posted by Bluenose

Maybe I'll never get a chance to try out a Waterloo. I'll still watch Reverb though. Maybe in a year or two the market will be flooded with used Waterloos. I always thought the fingerpicking blues and ragtime type guitar was a niche market. Who knew?

Depending on your definition of ‘flooding the market’ I don’t think that is very likely, especially if you’re looking at significant price decreases as a result.

Martin builds 70,000 guitars a year.
Taylor builds 130,000 guitars a year.

If what we are hearing is correct, there won’t even be 5000 Waterloo’s in existence by 24/25 which is about a decade since their first release. Probably less than 1500 WL-Ks or WL-S, even less if you’re after a Jumbo King.

Anyway, just thinking out loud…

[Bluenose]

It looks I may never have the chance to play a Waterloo but I still have my Martin 00028MD and my OM18A to console me.

[A.Wilder1]

Originally Posted by Bluenose

It looks I may never have the chance to play a Waterloo but I still have my Martin 00028MD and my OM18A to console me.

Sorry if I gave you that impression Blue, if you can’t find one in your area you can play mine if you’ll be kind enough to let me try one of your Martin’s

I’m guessing you’re an East Coaster and sometimes I’m out that way!

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by A.Wilder1

If what we are hearing is correct, there won’t even be 5000 Waterloo’s in existence by 24/25 which is about a decade since their first release. Probably less than 1500 WL-Ks or WL-S, even less if you’re after a Jumbo King.

This is very interesting information. It's evident that the market for Waterloos is strong enough that used prices are very high even while they are still in production and far from vintage. It appears as though they are collectors' items right out of the factory. Granted some have been asking very high prices and then lowering the asking price at a later date but the asking prices are still very high considering everything. I am considering trading my Martins for a WL-K or WL-12.

[Bluenose]

Originally Posted by A.Wilder1

Sorry if I gave you that impression Blue, if you can’t find one in your area you can play mine if you’ll be kind enough to let me try one of your Martin’s

I’m guessing you’re an East Coaster and sometimes I’m out that way!

A very kind offer sir and I truly would like to try out a Waterloo but I live in Canada just across the river from the town the has the ignominious title of being the coldest place in the CONUS. It was also the home town of the legendary footballer Bronko Nagurski. I'm talking about International Falls, Minnesota of course.