Setting Up a Basic Recording Space

[Charmed Life Picks]

Hi, I have a Zoom eight-channel recorder in a box somewhere around here. That's more than I'll never need.

Mics? I have a Shure Beta SM-58 and a bunch of other regular 58s and 57s. However, it's my understanding that these are largely viewed as live performance mics maybe not up to studio quality.

Any other mics I should consider, one for voice and one for acoustic guitar? I want to be below $100, and would be very interested in clean used mics, esp something like the Shures which are made by the ton and can be found for good deals in the resell market.

Thanks for your advice,
scott

[keith.rogers]

I read somewhere that, perhaps in Shure's marketing department, "SM" was originally a designation for Studio Microphone. You can do worse than the SM58 and SM57, honestly. And, if you have them, you can certainly record. Without knowing what kind of space you're recording in, mic suggestions in the sub $100 range are going to be difficult, and not necessarily result in better outcomes.

But, since you asked, I've been happy for some time using just a dynamic mic, such as the SM58 on my vocal because, well, I'm not Adele and my space is a small, converted bedroom, so capturing more space, or even more of my vocal (as in what a large diaphragm condenser, aka LDC, does) is not going to serve the recording. For guitar, I've had very good results with a single, small diaphragm, condenser mic. In the lower end of that category, the RODE M5 and sE Electronics sE7 models are well reviewed. I used Studio Projects C4, myself, though I've moved on to something else.

The resounding drumbeat you (should) get around here is that the *space* you record in is critical, along with mic placement. After that, it's the performance, and somewhere down the line, the actual mics. The corollary is that no mic overcomes a bad performance, and many mics will show worse in a bad space. So, IMO/IME, address the space first, if you haven't already.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

Hi, I have a Zoom eight-channel recorder in a box somewhere around here. That's more than I'll never need.

Mics? I have a Shure Beta SM-58 and a bunch of other regular 58s and 57s. However, it's my understanding that these are largely viewed as live performance mics maybe not up to studio quality.

Any other mics I should consider, one for voice and one for acoustic guitar? I want to be below $100, and would be very interested in clean used mics, esp something like the Shures which are made by the ton and can be found for good deals in the resell market.

Thanks for your advice,
scott

First is that below $100 for each mic ? Or below $100 for both mics ?
My advice is if "below $100" either way is your absolute break point, you already have usable mics for that budget range . Me ? I would save up more $ and make that break point more like $1000 for 2 mics, and just go with what you have to get started .

Just a side note IMO people should consider the mic/s with the same emphasis as they do their guitar/s.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

Hi, I have a Zoom eight-channel recorder in a box somewhere around here. That's more than I'll never need.

Mics? I have a Shure Beta SM-58 and a bunch of other regular 58s and 57s. However, it's my understanding that these are largely viewed as live performance mics maybe not up to studio quality.

Any other mics I should consider, one for voice and one for acoustic guitar? I want to be below $100, and would be very interested in clean used mics, esp something like the Shures which are made by the ton and can be found for good deals in the resell market.

Thanks for your advice,
scott

I'm assuming you have a Zoom R8, it's a great multi-tracker and will give you excellent recording capabilities with a couple of condenser mics. Do record in 24 bit format when you use your multi-tracker.

First, dynamics are fine, but you will notice a large improvement in sound when you switch to a condenser over your garden variety Sm57's or 58's. They excel as robust PA mics that can take abuse and for certain studio tasks like being parked in front of a guitar amp.

The other part of what you need to understand is the nature of the preamps in your Zoom. They will work great with a phantom powered condenser, but dynamic mics will need the gain set higher and you're going to end up with self-noise from the preamps. If you are using a dynamic for a guitar amp the level of sound presented to the mic will somewhat negate that, but picking up an acoustic guitar from 8 to 12 inches away is a whole other matter. The condenser mic is going to benefit you greatly in that case.

If you're wanting to spend $100 on TWO condensers it's going to be a bit of a tall order, but you can come close.

Step #1:
I recently picked up a "matched pair" of Behringer C2 SDCs from Sweetwater and for $50 these are an exceptional value. I have stereo examples posted here using them if you need to see them in action.

I used them when I posted the "Recording audio / video on the cheap" topic.



Step #2:
Any of the cheap import LDCs will get you in the game, and the competition is fierce among all the manufacturers. You can find them for sub-$50 (Mackie EM-91C is $44 at Sweetwater), but if you can stretch your budget, $80 will get you a AKG P-120.

The P-120 is technically a medium sized condenser (the same as the often recommended AT-2020) and will do a good job for you.

You'll need all the usual accessories such as stands, booms, cables, and shock mount and pop filter for the LDC. For what you're looking at I would recommend you don't purchase used. Condensers are easily damaged and you don't really know what's been done with a used mic. When you look at more expensive used gear the chances of being used by someone who knows how to take care of their mics is better.

[Brent Hahn]

Scott --

The "space" is the thing. In this video, everything but the bass was recorded with either an SM58 or an iPhone 5. But they were recorded in great-sounding spaces. You've been to the Woodshed a zillion times -- that's a space that sounds amazing not due to any design wizardry, more because of the haphazard clutter and all the people in the room. Room treatment is a rabbit hole, but a good-sounding room is both a blessing and achievable. Casein picks are a similar kind of rabbit hole, so this should be right up your alley.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by KevWind

First is that below $100 for each mic ? Or below $100 for both mics ?
My advice is if "below $100" either way is your absolute break point, you already have usable mics for that budget range . Me ? I would save up more $ and make that break point more like $1000 for 2 mics, and just go with what you have to get started .

Just a side note IMO people should consider the mic/s with the same emphasis as they do their guitar/s.

Thanks, everyone. I've been so busy grading final essays for my students that I completely forgot I posted this.

Appreciate all the insights and advice. More to follow.

To clarify: I meant $100 per microphone, not for two combined.

As far as spending a lot on mics, that might be something I'll look at in the future, but not in the near. However, what's cool is all this stuff cannot be written off the top through CLP.

Thanks, folks. I shall return.

Would love to hear from others.

sm

[mixsit]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

...Any of the cheap import LDCs will get you in the game, and the competition is fierce among all the manufacturers. You can find them for sub-$50 (Mackie EM-91C is $44 at Sweetwater)...

Wow. Interesting, and unique in a condenser actually quite soft up top rather than the typical hyped high end.
https://mackie.com/img/file_resources/EM-91C_OM.pdf

Wonder how it might fair vs say a Cascade Fat Head ribbon with similar curves?

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by mixsit

Wow. Interesting, and unique in a condenser actually quite soft up top rather than the typical hyped high end.
https://mackie.com/img/file_resources/EM-91C_OM.pdf

Wonder how it might fair vs say a Cascade Fat Head ribbon with similar curves?

Honestly, I wouldn't put a lot of stock in that frequency chart. At the price point I'd bet money that it sounds very similar to every other import mic in that category.

Generic frequency graphs are designed to sell mics, not accurately represent products. When you get an individually run frequency response graph with your mic that would be something that would more closely relate to actual response, but those mics aren't selling for $50.

[wood&wire]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

I'm assuming you have a Zoom R8, it's a great multi-tracker and will give you excellent recording capabilities with a couple of condenser mics. Do record in 24 bit format when you use your multi-tracker.

First, dynamics are fine, but you will notice a large improvement in sound when you switch to a condenser over your garden variety Sm57's or 58's. They excel as robust PA mics that can take abuse and for certain studio tasks like being parked in front of a guitar amp.

The other part of what you need to understand is the nature of the preamps in your Zoom. They will work great with a phantom powered condenser, but dynamic mics will need the gain set higher and you're going to end up with self-noise from the preamps. If you are using a dynamic for a guitar amp the level of sound presented to the mic will somewhat negate that, but picking up an acoustic guitar from 8 to 12 inches away is a whole other matter. The condenser mic is going to benefit you greatly in that case.

If you're wanting to spend $100 on TWO condensers it's going to be a bit of a tall order, but you can come close.

Step #1:
I recently picked up a "matched pair" of Behringer C2 SDCs from Sweetwater and for $50 these are an exceptional value. I have stereo examples posted here using them if you need to see them in action.

I used them when I posted the "Recording audio / video on the cheap" topic.



Step #2:
Any of the cheap import LDCs will get you in the game, and the competition is fierce among all the manufacturers. You can find them for sub-$50 (Mackie EM-91C is $44 at Sweetwater), but if you can stretch your budget, $80 will get you a AKG P-120.

The P-120 is technically a medium sized condenser (the same as the often recommended AT-2020) and will do a good job for you.

You'll need all the usual accessories such as stands, booms, cables, and shock mount and pop filter for the LDC. For what you're looking at I would recommend you don't purchase used. Condensers are easily damaged and you don't really know what's been done with a used mic. When you look at more expensive used gear the chances of being used by someone who knows how to take care of their mics is better.

I like that contraption your mics are attached to. Is that store-bought or did you build it yourself?

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by wood&wire

I like that contraption your mics are attached to. Is that store-bought or did you build it yourself?

It's homebrew, I always have lots of scrap wood around.

I've cobbled together a few different supports to keep from spending actual money. (I'm REALLY "frugal"!)







Also, my music stand / microphone (and capo...) holder that gets a ton of use for band practice and gigs:

[dilver]

You could use a decent condenser mic of some sort in your set up. Look for older models that still work - they’ll be within your price range. I picked up two CAD 95 small diaphragm mics for like 60 bucks a piece. They require phantom power, but I use these for everything from drum overheads to recording acoustics in stereo and they sound great.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

It's homebrew, I always have lots of scrap wood around.

I've cobbled together a few different supports to keep from spending actual money. (I'm REALLY "frugal"!)







Also, my music stand / microphone (and capo...) holder that gets a ton of use for band practice and gigs:

Rudy, you’re an inventive fellow. That shock mount contraption for the SDCs caught my eye. Care to reveal the engineering on that?

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by b1j

Rudy, you’re an inventive fellow. That shock mount contraption for the SDCs caught my eye. Care to reveal the engineering on that?

Not much to reveal. It's some scrap schedule 80 pipe bonded to a flat piece of the same material and held with a tapered wood stem that is made similar to the commercially available mounts for recorders like the Zoom H1 or Tascam DR-05.

The flat section was produced by slitting a short section of the PVC and heating it until it could be un-rolled into a flat piece.

Before the sections were glued together I added the slits with my band saw to hold the large size rubber bands.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Not much to reveal. It's some scrap schedule 80 pipe bonded to a flat piece of the same material and held with a tapered wood stem that is made similar to the commercially available mounts for recorders like the Zoom H1 or Tascam DR-05.

The flat section was produced by slitting a short section of the PVC and heating it until it could be un-rolled into a flat piece.

Before the sections were glued together I added the slits with my band saw to hold the large size rubber bands.

Clever.
..............

[b1j]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Not much to reveal. It's some scrap schedule 80 pipe bonded to a flat piece of the same material and held with a tapered wood stem that is made similar to the commercially available mounts for recorders like the Zoom H1 or Tascam DR-05.

The flat section was produced by slitting a short section of the PVC and heating it until it could be un-rolled into a flat piece.

Before the sections were glued together I added the slits with my band saw to hold the large size rubber bands.

Thanks for the alternate view. Now I get it. That's what I call a private victory.