Help me choose and place high-end microphones

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Pizzanetor

After several searches I'm oriented to take two Neumann KM184, positioned with the XY position.
Opinions or Suggestions?

Me personally for just a bit more in price (but you also get a matched pair and a stereo bar ) I would choose the Gefell M 300 over the Neuman 184,,,, but no doubt either will work and both will work XY or spaced pair

https://vintageking.com/gefell-m300-matched-pair

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Me personally for just a bit more in price (but you also get a matched pair and a stereo bar ) I would choose the Gefell M 300 over the Neuman 184,,,, but no doubt either will work and both will work XY or spaced pair

https://vintageking.com/gefell-m300-matched-pair

Agree that I like the Gefell M300 mikes more than the Neuman 184 though I'd go with space pair mike positions over XY.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Agree that I like the Gefell M300 mikes more than the Neuman 184 though I'd go with space pair mike positions over XY.

I also like spaced pair, but the good news the OP can experiment with both

[Rudy4]

The old Cakewalk 10 Microphone Placement Techniques For Acoustic Guitar is a good place to start.

[j3ffr0]

Strummer with a fully instrumented arrangement or Fingerstyle soloist? The reason I ask is the answer can really depend. KM184 are great for strumming and for anything in a full/dense arrangement -- cuts through the mix and bass rolls of nicely. For a solo Fingerstyle performance a pair of KM184 might not be what you want. The low end might not fill out the way you want it, which is the the reason I always paired one with a ribbon or 414xls when doing solo Fingerstyle work. I kind of like a KM184 with something else for solo stuff, but two KM184s is just too much KM184 for my taste. I use a spaced pair of mics (that aren't always the same). I don't like xy much.

The platinum standard for fingerstylists seems to be Schoeps CMC6, but that's a different price point.

For all around use, one could do a lot worst than having a KM184 and C414XLS in the house (or maybe a TLM107 if you want to stay Neumann and pair the KM184 with a multi pattern LDC)

[Mbroady]

It’s been touched upon briefly, and assuming no attention has been given to it, before you spend the big bucks on some good mics get your room in order.
Better to have a good sounding room and some ok mics then to have a poopy sounding room and the best mics money can buy...imho

Loads of info On the net about setting up a room for recording and/or monitoring.

[guitarman68]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Me personally for just a bit more in price (but you also get a matched pair and a stereo bar ) I would choose the Gefell M 300 over the Neuman 184,,,, but no doubt either will work and both will work XY or spaced pair

https://vintageking.com/gefell-m300-matched-pair

I absolutely second this. After more than twenty years almost exclusively using KM184s I started looking for more smooth treble register and found it in the M300, before getting the chance to purchase a pair of vintage KM84s.
KM184 is a great sounding mic but IMO a bit overrated, possibly from being the successor of the famous KM84 , which sounds very different. Schoeps CMC6MK4 is the only mic I know which is unbelievable close to the KM84 with the benefit of less self noise compared to the KM84. I own both pairs and can not decide which one to chose.

Another mic I can highly recommend is the Austrian Audio CC8. Lower price tag than a KM184 but if I had to decide, I always would take the CC8. Lately I had the chance to audition a stereo pair and compared it to my KM84s and Schoeps CMC6MK4 recording finger style, slide, rhythm, mandolin.
Background: AKG got sold to Samsung and the AKG mics are produced in Hungary and China these days. Part of the AKG staff stayed in Vienna and founded Austrian Audio. These mics are simply amazing at a great price.
Another mic you should check is the Miktek C5.

So if I would be in your situation, I would go for the CC8. It's not only "bang for the buck" but these mics perform way above their price tag.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Very interesting comment!

It does seem that a lot of folks are using two small diaphragm condenser mics for a good guitar sound very often these days. It may depend on the guitar that is being recorded.

- Glenn

Absolutely. I spent time owning and experimenting with two LD condenser mics in various mic positions for solo fingerstyle (flesh and nail)...pairs of Gefell UMT 800, CAD VX2, ADK TT (modded), all five of he different 3 Zigma CHI LD capsules (emulations of U47, U49, U67, C12 and ELA M 251) and AEA R84 ribbons, often through a variety of preamps. I can't say that any of them were bad, I liked many of them and some were truly enjoyable.

Much depends on the music being played, the instrument and player, the eventual use of the recording (e.g., solo, with vocals or in an ensemble) and personal aesthetics.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

Absolutely. I spent time owning and experimenting with two LD condenser mics in various mic positions for solo fingerstyle (flesh and nail)...pairs of Gefell UMT 800, CAD VX2, ADK TT (modded), all five of he different 3 Zigma CHI LD capsules (emulations of U47, U49, U67, C12 and ELA M 251) and AEA R84 ribbons, often through a variety of preamps. I can't say that any of them were bad, I liked many of them and some were truly enjoyable.

Much depends on the music being played, the instrument and player, the eventual use of the recording (e.g., solo, with vocals or in an ensemble) and personal aesthetics.

Agreed. I typically record simultaneously with both Schoeps (SDs) and a pair of Brauners (LDs), plus usually a ribbon (R88) for good measure. Then I can pick and choose at mix time, and also have the option to blend. Sometimes I prefer the LDs, sometimes the SDs, depending on song, guitar, and probably whether it's a Monday or a Tuesday :-)

[runamuck]

I believe others will share my opinion that no matter which mics you buy, expensive or inexpensive, your room acoustics will have more to do with the quality you'll get in a recording than anything else.

Same goes for mic placement. It's a big deal, especially in an untreated room.

I've heard people get better results with a couple $100 mics when the room and mic placement are at least OK than a pair of $3000 mics in a not-so-good setup.

There's a lot more going on here than spending a lot of money.

Check Doug Young's (he posted a couple times above) website for some excellent examples of what I'm referring to here.

[alohachris]

Aloha pizzanetor,

Many condensor mic's will work well for home recording an acoustic guitar - in a treated space. I am with those here who favor a matched pair of SDC's in an A-B spaced pair for stereo tracking in an ADEQUATELY treated space. That's the configuration I would start out with my friend.

You can experiment with mixing-matching different types of mic's or adding say, a figure-8 or LDC mic to your A-B matched SDC pair. Room treatment will allow you to place your mic's in almost any configuration or pattern. If you don't treat, then you'll be limited to close-miking, like in X-Y. Why limit yourself?

I worked my way up the mic chain for over half a century. I finally landed on a matched pair of Schoeps CMC6's with a variety of modular capsules I preferred for different music & applications. My go-to capsules were a pair of MK41 hypercardioid caps. Although I had many pairs of great condenser SDC & LDC mic's in my mic locker, the Schoeps were the best all-around for my music & uses since the early 2000's.

Talking about higher-end studio guitar mic's, the Neumann KM 184 's you mentioned are really nice mic's, (though it is not as balanced & is a bit more upper-mid-hyped than its legendary KM-84 predecessor). But I prefer the Microtech-Gefell M300's or M295's over the 184's for different reasons. There are many other SDC's I prefer to KM184's as well (Pelosi P-28 tubes, older AKG 451C's &480's, Beyerdynamic 930's, DPA 4006A & 4011A, etc..

You asked about mic placement? Doug Young's 'basic recording' video here provides some excellent clues for getting started with home recording. Check out ALL of his video's. Excellent & very useful for solo guitar players:

https://acousticguitar.com/home-reco...oustic-guitar/

RE: Mic Placement. Start with treating your space. Then, master recording an A-B matched pair of SDC mic's in stereo & also X-Y. Then...EXPERIMENT!

There are no limitations as to what you can come up with in mic placement in a treated space. So try A-B, X-Y, Mid-Side (need a Figure 8 mic for this too), ORTF, over the shoulder, 12th fret options & combinations of mic's, etc. Or even try using four channels - EX: combine a close-miked SDC pair in X-Y with an LDC pair in A-B, placed father away. It's limitless! Mic Placement, after Treatment, is the second most important factor in home recording success or for LIVE applications at gigs too. AND EXPERIMENTING WITH MIC PLACEMENT IS SO MUCH FUN!!! So EXPERIMENT, pizzanetor! Like here, again, many specific clues from Doug Young:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKX3unlBLn4

I just wanted to add my miking opinion/preferences here for your review, pizzanetor. All the best to you!

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

[Ty Ford]

Do you like this?

https://player.vimeo.com/video/2334535

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Do you like this?

https://player.vimeo.com/video/2334535

Nice video and playing, so what about your mics?

[Ty Ford]

Thanks,

One mic, on the sofa arm. You can see it in the shot. Schoeps CMC641.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Do you like this?

https://player.vimeo.com/video/2334535

Absolutely gorgeous piece you have written! Loved every second of this piece and your playing. Makes me want to try out one of those partial capos as well.

If remember correctly you use a Schoeps resting on the sofa in from of the guitar, and one Overhead?

Please Tell us a bit about your processing. Obviously you have some heavy reverb...but is there a delay going too? What ever you did...it was perfect for this particular piece. With the tuning or Partial capo...you got a droning sound coming as well. almost sounded like a Jaws harp from the drone strings.