I have a bit of a scale and size dilemma

I've been working on acquiring another really nice guitar as I'm moving away from what I have typically played. I'm not just after more boutique gear but I'm moving toward smaller bodies and shorter scale-lengths too because bigger guitars hurt.

I found the right guitar recently, at least ergonomically. It was 24.75 scale with a 00 body that came in at 4 1/8" deep and 14 1/2" at the lower bout (also 12-fret). It was a Santa Cruz 00. I think my measurements are correct, I may be off just slightly, but you get the idea. Even though it was super easy to play and perfect for me in just about every way I did not keep that guitar, I sent it right back because I didn't like the tone. It wasn't the standard rosewood or mahogany, it was Macassar and I'm not a fan, as I now know. Just one of those gotchas from having to order off the Internet, but I really don't have much choice given the difficulty of finding this particular guitar close by (there aren't any). Even finding them new anywhere turns up less than a handful.

Anyway I like the people I ordered from and want to keep doing business there. I think they are AGF sponsors too, so I'm doubly wanting to keep my business with them. Problem is they don't have another 00, which is no surprise. But they do have a 000 in short scale. Only this short scale is 24.9 instead of 24.75. The guitar is slightly bigger with a 15" lower bout (I think the depth is the same).

I had the guy play it over the phone this time and I liked what I heard—it had the tones I like. But a 000 is bigger and I'm trying to go smaller, yet it's hardly that much bigger and it's not deeper. The scale length is longer, but just barely. I'm not sure if I should chance it (if I don't like it and send this one back too it's another 5% stocking fee and shipping, so the costs add up quick). Or should I regretfully choose another company and just get the 00. I know what the 00 feels like and I'm a big fan. I have not played a 000 (and there aren't any around here) so I don't know if it will feel really different or will be so close I wouldn't even notice.

Soo... any ideas? Experiences to pass along?

[Jaden]

I leave expert advice to further posts from members except to say 15” across the lower bout I would consider a full size guitar (personal pov), so don’t compromise - go for the 00.

[Matt.S]

While I respect your wanting to continue business based on a good first experience, if they do not have what you are looking for than it is okay to go elsewhere. Unless you are saving in fees by continuing your order through them.

Either way I was in a similar position. I started by looking at Parlors then also wanted a OO but it just came to be that none I liked were in my price range and like you I had just ordered other guitars so I had to be certain before taking another chance. I ended up with a Pono CS-10V which is a 12 Fret OOO Slothead in all solid Acacia. Anyway I absolutely love it. I'm not sure if the scale is 24.75 or 24.9 but I will say it is much more of a joy to play than the Blueridge and Alvarez parlors I tried previously. If the bending of strings is an issue this OOO does it with ease. I enjoy the full sound and it doesn't feel like a large guitar by any means.

Good luck with your search. For what it's worth I can't wait to pick up a OO when it comes around. That's more likely the GAS talking than anything.

Originally Posted by Jaden

I leave expert advice to further posts from members except to say 15” across the lower bout I would consider a full size guitar (personal pov), so don’t compromise - go for the 00.

My Martin 00-28 is 14 5/8" across the lower bout. Taylor GCs are 15" across the lower bout and that's the smallest guitar they make. I seem to get along with those OK. Smaller would be nice. My Eastman is smaller, but honestly I can't really tell the difference. I think I feel the depth of the body more. At 4" I'm OK, it puts my arm in a comfortable position. At dreadnought size I'm hurting and those are only what, 1/2" deeper? Or maybe 5/8" deeper? So a little bit makes a big difference sometimes I know and that's what keeps me up at night.

I guess I am a smidge more worried about the size of the body than the scale length since I already have 24.9" guitars. But then again 24.75 feels so right. And on the plus side, I've actually heard this 000 being played. Any other 00 I'd move to I wouldn't likely get to hear ahead of time. I'm so obsessive when it comes to guitars.

Originally Posted by Matt.S

If the bending of strings is an issue this OOO does it with ease. I enjoy the full sound and it doesn't feel like a large guitar by any means.

How big across the bout is that guitar? How deep is the body?

[cmd612]

A few thoughts -

Ergonomics are really personal; some people are sensitive to depth, some to width, some can play anything. It really could go either way if you can't try it first.

Are SCGC 000 dimensions (scale and body size) close to anything else you could get your hands on? Know anyone with a 000 Martin? (I'm not sure if the body depth is the same or not.)

Are you sure the 000 is going to have a sound you like when you hear it in person? I couldn't tell from your post whether it was definitely the wood combo or if maybe you just aren't crazy about SCGCs. ?

That restocking and shipping - 5% of the price of a new SCGC is getting into round-trip coach airfare territory. Would it make sense to take a trip somewhere where you can play a whole lot of guitars in person and pick the one you love?

[devellis]

I like small guitars, too. While I'm fine with a 000, I do prefer a 00. That size has a nice intimate feel to it that I enjoy.

I had a rosewood Santa Cruz and what I noticed about it was that it had so much sustain that the notes tended to run together. That wasn't good for what I play, although it sounded fantastic for other styles of music. If that's the issue you had, you might want to look for a mahogany guitar. You should't find it that hard to locate a nice 00 somewhere and you should be able, at a minimum, to get someone to play it for you over the phone and give you an in-hand description including all dimensions. Most 00s have relatively short scales and shallow bodies, so that combination shouldn't be difficult to find. If you tell us what style of music you play, we may be able to steer you toward a specific guitar that's available.

[imwjl]

Delay the gratification and make road trips. Go to jams and gatherings. That sure helped me know what I liked and didn’t like.

On the scale size, I’ve come to like the short scale a lot but having and having had both there are times when I’m sure it is also part of the sound. I’ve played pretty much the same or similar guitars from Collings, Martin and Santa Cruz in both scale lengths. To me short scale warms them up in a nice way in addition to making my achy old hands feel better.

FWIW, a SCGC 14 fret 000 ended up being my GAS killer keeper. It’s 9 or soon to be 9 years old now. It’s not just comfy to hold but comfy to the ears and versatile.

Add, it doesn’t have to be a Santa Cruz. I love any great guitar. That said their tone almost always seems to be comfy, strong, but not too much and they have the super responsive nature or “head room” as some put it. I have a Collings, Martin and Fender I love so it’s not like I’m a tribal brand fan boy.

Delaying the gratification and trying a lot of stuff stopped a bunch of buying and selling. I didn’t order my slightly custom Santa Cruz but new it was the one pretty much instantly because I spent time checking out (and owning) a lot of similar guitars.

[jazzguy]

Martin 00-18 Standard Series. Fantastic guitar and less expensive than the Santa Cruz.