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  #16  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:22 PM
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riorider riorider is offline
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Joost, great to hear from you, but sorry for the reasons driving this build. However - what a great build to follow, so thanks for posting it!

Curious: double sides... doubling them to add stiffness without needing side bracing I've heard, and although had thought that the tone color added would be the least impact of any of the woods. But - I've never heard of using spruce for the 2nd wood.

Can you discuss how you came to that decision - was it tonal, or something else?

Thanks again for posting, and I'll be following with great enthusiasm!

Phil
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  #17  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:29 PM
Fsgeek Fsgeek is offline
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Nice design

Its such a shame a good player gets hit by a chronic injury... anyways, all the best
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  #18  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:46 PM
Billy Boy Billy Boy is offline
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Hello, Joost! It is great to have you back posting on the forum! You're guitar looks exciting, and I'm eager to watch your build progress and your updates on this thread. Welcome back!
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  #19  
Old 03-01-2013, 01:02 AM
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Joost Assink Joost Assink is offline
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Thanks for the kind words everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by riorider View Post
.....
Curious: double sides... doubling them to add stiffness without needing side bracing I've heard, and although had thought that the tone color added would be the least impact of any of the woods. But - I've never heard of using spruce for the 2nd wood.
....
Actually, many of the Masters did the same, like Ramirez and Daniel Fredrich. First, the double side construction is stiffer than a solid piece of wood, and with guitar sides, stiffness is important. There will be no real influence on the tone, but it will keep the string energy where you want it: in the top and back. There is very little string energy with nylon string guitars, so everything I do is designed for getting the string energy in the right place. Hence the very stiff neck with brazilian rosewood and maple.

Secondly, by removing some of the heavier Rosewood and replacing it with a softer, stiff, lighter wood such as alpine spruce, you end up with something stiffer and lighter. Now, to answer your question more specifically, yes, you can use other woods, but the stiffness-to-weight ratio of spruce is the very best, so that is the most logical choice, plus what I stated above, that it reduces mass.

Laminating offers other advantages, because the parts are relatively thin and already bent, after the glue sets, there is no springback. Thus the sides maintain the shape of your design exactly. This will give you a very consistent volume inside your box.

Finally, beside the fact that, indeed, you do not need any side bracing, these double sides will not crack. It is a much more durable construction all in all. It is very important to realize that double sides is something entirely different to a cheap laminate guitar construction. Because cheap laminate guitars use plywood that is bent after lamination, whereas this construction uses high-quality quartersawn tonewoods and the glueing is done after bending, keeping the glue from being heated by the bending iron and compromising the joint.

Luthier Tim McKnight is a great fan of double sides. This is a fun read, read all the way through: http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=116348
I hope this answers your question. Keep any questions coming, so the thread is as informative as possible.
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Last edited by Joost Assink; 03-01-2013 at 01:23 AM.
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  #20  
Old 03-02-2013, 03:54 AM
Jackknifegypsy Jackknifegypsy is offline
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Default Doubling the sides, rosewood and Swiss Spruce

Why not double the top as well?
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  #21  
Old 03-02-2013, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
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Why not double the top as well?
Well, I did consider that, but by speaking to double top experts (smallman etc), I keep hearing that it takes quite some time and quite a few tries to really nail a double top.
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  #22  
Old 03-02-2013, 08:01 AM
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Thanks Joost - definitely understand the strengths of double sides. Two of my guitars (Baranik Meridians) have double sides; Tim is building me one now with dbl sides as well. Mike B used mahogany as the inner on my mahogany Meridian, and rosewood on the cocobolo; Tim put cedar inside the mahogany he's building for me. I just hadn't heard (nor thought) of using spruce inner sides previously. What you say for your reasons makes great sense!

Carry on!

Phil
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  #23  
Old 03-06-2013, 05:57 AM
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As promised, here is the next update. We have been busy this weekend. We have cut out all the pieces we need for the basic neck construction. And the neck has been glued together.

We start off by heating up the hide glue to the exact proper temperature. We have mixed the hide glue with cold water before heating it up and after all the water has been absorbed, it is time to put it in the baby bottle heater.



Here you see all the woods we are going to use.

All the woods in these pictures are at least 30 years old. Some of them are from the 60s others from the 70s. The neck will be glued together with Brazilian Rosewood, flamed maple and a centerpiece of Macassar Ebony.



We start by marking off the basic shape we need. We just pile all pieces together and cut them at once.



Here you see that beautiful, quartersawn piece of Macassar Ebony that will be at the center of the neck construction.



So, let's move on to the bandsaw to roughly cut out the proper shape.



Here you see the three pieces that still needed to be cut, stacked together



Just look at the flame in the maple. That will look awesome once the neck is finished.



Here we are testing the pieces together, marking them so when we do glue up we will be able to line it up the same way.



Now it is time to move fast. Hide glue will get tacky really soon. So I'm just going to shoot a few pictures and then help out getting all the surfaces glued.



After all the pieces have been glued up and aligned, it is time to put on glue clamps and let it sit for at least 24 hours. We have all the time in the world, so we are going to let it sit even longer. Just give everything time to settle and harden out nicely.

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  #24  
Old 03-06-2013, 06:01 AM
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Finally, here are the pieces we will be using for the bridge and the fretboard. The bridge will be made out of a very ring-y piece of very old Brazilian Rosewood. The wood you see here for the fretboard is also from the 60s. Great quality wood and very, very dry.


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  #25  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:41 AM
Ryudas Ryudas is offline
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No matter how many steel string guitars i try and play, the good old bassy, warm nylon sound still is my favourite. thing is, I've always favoured the design of a steel string guitar over a classical one. So this build thread is perfect for me. i really like your choice of woods, they are actually, my "dream choice" if i had the money. The neck is quite beautiful and i think you'll end up with a fabulous guitar. Maybe the only thing i don't really like in this guitar is the bevel.I prefer them simpler(but that's just me)
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  #26  
Old 03-07-2013, 10:03 AM
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Exciting!! My Custom Graf Tuners are done. Black Chrome and Brass with horn buttons and deep hand engraving.

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  #27  
Old 03-07-2013, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joost Assink View Post
Exciting!! My Custom Graf Tuners are done. Black Chrome and Brass with horn buttons and deep hand engraving.
WOW!!!!! Those tuners are off the hook. Can't wait to see them on the guitar.......Steve
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  #28  
Old 03-07-2013, 10:52 AM
cokezero cokezero is offline
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Quote:
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WOW! Those look awesome! Almost has that "Elvish" look from Lord of the Rings to them.
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  #29  
Old 03-07-2013, 06:19 PM
haolebrownie haolebrownie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needspeed View Post
WOW!!!!! Those tuners are off the hook. Can't wait to see them on the guitar.......Steve
What he said!
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  #30  
Old 03-07-2013, 06:29 PM
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drcmusic7 drcmusic7 is offline
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LOVE the tuners!

Please keep the pictures coming.

Kindly,
Danny
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brazilian, build thread, cross-over, nylon, swiss

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