$90 Strat vs. $1000 Strat

[Davis Webb]

Thanks Les...I found the same thing. I am glad you used a good reference headphone as well and have experience with Strats. I have owned mostly strats, about half a dozen and was surprised.

Where the Affinity does break down is when you are not just working those fixed clean tones, but begin to work with the middle and neck pickups. They take on this muddy range and I think I will try Fretbuzz's method of lowering the pickup and testing it to find a sweet spot. However, Fret, you are playing with 10s and I find that 9s are better for bends and for my finger strength. I think tweaking the pickup for 9s could be more of a challenge, you are getting much stronger fundamentals with that gauge. But I had 10s on it and found it too much work to play high on the fretboard.

I am encouraged by two people now, both you and my guitar tech, to keep the stock pickups in and just adjust the amp and we did a full setup with 9s. But it still needs pickup height adjustment I guess. This thread is worthwhile, if someone is cash strapped and must go with a used Squier, available on Kijiji everywhere, and cannot do a $300 upgrade to great pickups, its nice to know how to work with what we do have.

10s eh? Strong fingers!

It was well worth it, BTW to redo my set up (felt the basses were a little choked before) which helped get those pups a little higher to better effect. Set up really is the first step...the first one I did was not very "subtle." Just intonation/action sort of thing...hey isn't that what most techs do really for how much money?

The second set up I carefully adjusted not simply for better action/intonation but the "true" sound of the string, optimum tension. The result? A musical instrument. It's worth the extra time...and actually easy to do and learn how to do this...and can understand now why folks who also own Strats costing much much more still love their Bullets...stock!!! When you get them "there." When you optimize the string tension on EACH string patiently in increments...you're playing different pups... a different guitar.

Makes me also understand why so many even higher end Strats end up not keepers for folks or why they go crazy swapping out pups...minus a really TRUE set up with concern for the optimum tension of EACH string...minus the true personality of each string...but simply "Hey, it plays like butter." 90 percent of techs just won't do that...really.

[Davis Webb]

Well, I went to my guitar shop today to score some strings and while I was there I took out a strat or 2, the best comparison I figure was the 50s reissue, US made.
I took a look at it and played it unplugged at first and thought, wow, this sure is beautiful, the fretboard was gorgeous. And very playable but that was the perfect setup it had as well.

Then, I plugged it in.

Out came the sound of my Squier, just a tiny bit less noise, a slightly and I mean, slightly cleaner sound. I played it on clean, overdriven, reverb, and back again. It sounded the same as the Squier.

I put it down and went on my way.

I am not tone deaf, I have a very developed tonal ear, I have owned at least a dozen good acoustics and many electrics. There really is a trivial difference in both tone and playability.

Originally Posted by Davis Webb

Well, I went to my guitar shop today to score some strings and while I was there I took out a strat or 2, the best comparison I figure was the 50s reissue, US made.
I took a look at it and played it unplugged at first and thought, wow, this sure is beautiful, the fretboard was gorgeous. And very playable but that was the perfect setup it had as well.

Then, I plugged it in.

Out came the sound of my Squier, just a tiny bit less noise, a slightly and I mean, slightly cleaner sound. I played it on clean, overdriven, reverb, and back again. It sounded the same as the Squier.

I put it down and went on my way.

I am not tone deaf, I have a very developed tonal ear, I have owned at least a dozen good acoustics and many electrics. There really is a trivial difference in both tone and playability.

After my second set up, Round 2, my Bullet came completely alive unplugged and plugged in...Staying stock..will probably pickup another Bullet soon...not joking. It took time and patience...

Welcome to the genius of the Strat design and the genius of MODERATE to even lower output pickups...whether alnico...or "decent" ceramics.

I owe myself at least $100...

Strings: Ernie Ball Classic Rock & Roll 10s (pure nickles).

Check out this comparison on You Tube between a Bullet and a Classic Vibe '60s Strat (which everyone is "supposed to" prefer).

http://youtu.be/Z6QYJTpXbk0

But most importantly, read the dude who posted the vid's own comments on basswood...

[Fichtezc]

Originally Posted by Fret Buzz

Check out this comparison on You Tube between a Bullet and a Classic Vibe '60s Strat (which everyone is "supposed to" prefer).

http://youtu.be/Z6QYJTpXbk0

Did it blind and prefer the CV. Not that there's ANYTHING wrong with the bullet. It sounded fine, just not as clear or biting to me. I did his "better" video too.

[Davis Webb]

The classic vibe has more body during soloing. Pickup swapping would equalize them.

When put through an amp with some drive, we get this comparison;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh6-1_oF7Jo

Here is the Squier with classic vibe pickups swapped in;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6IcKIZTY7A

[Fichtezc]

I have a comparison with my 2011 American Standard and a 2006 Squier which was rewired (though needs some cleaning, since one of the pots is scratchy) and has upgraded pups if anyone is interested.

Originally Posted by Davis Webb

The classic vibe has more body during soloing. Pickup swapping would equalize them.


Here is the Squier with classic vibe pickups swapped in;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6IcKIZTY7A

Great vid which also supports IMO the whole immediacy of tone in basswood..and maybe not so bad the thinner body after all...

[Tone Gopher]

Originally Posted by Fret Buzz

...the tension of each string optimized...

I've seen you mention this a couple times now. Could you expound on what you mean by this?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Tone Gopher

I've seen you mention this a couple times now. Could you expound on what you mean by this?

Thanks.

For a given guitar, body, neck and pups...adjusting string tension for optimum, best to your ears and playing style and the music you play...going one string, one saddle at a time, and going back till you get it "there." You end up adjusting intonation here and ther also. Worth it.

I think "spec" set ups are simply Round 1, with Round 2 that kind of fine tuning.

3 strings that stand out especially requiring this, at least in my experience: the 6th, 4th and 3rd (esepcially with 10s) strings.

And I'm especially talking Strats here.

That whole Bullet vs. CV comparison up top? Pushy D string and a not well-defined 6th and a G that's not quite smoothe enough. It's not just the quality of the pups in other words frequently we're hearing...

But also with ceramic pups...if you'e dialed in "solid tone" vs. "somewhat transparent" when playing behind the middle pup and playing the middle pup...in 2nd and 4th position, what are you left with? Less "clear."

That's why I also think there's a kind of false sweet spot with Strats especially...but the real one's a little bit lower with the pups. Pick material matters also. Tortex plus ceramics? Unless you're playing something really heavy...you gotta be joking IMO. Celluloid or nylon...or even graphite.

I also think pure nickles are easier to tune in Strats with...if only because the basses have less volume, they're less pushy...rounder.

Originally Posted by Fichtezc

Did it blind and prefer the CV. Not that there's ANYTHING wrong with the bullet. It sounded fine, just not as clear or biting to me. I did his "better" video too.

Actually went back to the vid again...I'm hearing pups on the Bullet ever slightly too high...killing some "bite" and definition....and a set up up that's too low overall...

[Davis Webb]

Fiztec

Please post the comparsion. Would love to hear.

Its obvious that you need to really tweak a Bullet or the big brother Squier to make it work. Thats the key.

[Tone Gopher]

Originally Posted by Fret Buzz

For a given guitar, body, neck and pups...adjusting string tension for optimum, best to your ears and playing style and the music you play...going one string, one saddle at a time, and going back till you get it "there." You end up adjusting intonation here and ther also. Worth it.

OK, I'm thick. I've been playing Strats for 40+ years and don't understand what it is that you are adjusting. To me, adjusting string tension is accomplished at the tuner. Only problem is that as you adjust string tension, that changes the pitch of the string. The other individual controls are in the saddle - intonation and action height.

So what do you mean when you say "adjusting tension for optimum" - "optimum" what?

Thanks for your patience. Forgive me, I'm a literal person.

P.S. My current favorite "Strat" is a '80s Tokai "Custom Edition" - best Strat that Fender never made.

[Davis Webb]

Hey ToneGopher

I think what Fret is saying, is that you need to find the right guage, he says that 10s make a cheaper strat copy come alive and that 9s are too squirrely, whereas you could use 9s on a US strat and it works fine.

Then Fret does a fair bit of ingenious tweaking of pickup height to find the sweet spot for each one. The 10 gauge string gives body to the note on those cheap ceramic pickups and there is a good height for each pickup to deal with the tinny, annoying sound that Bullets produce, that combination of tweaks matures the sound and makes it sound not so toy like.