I don't understand "why" to use a capo

[donlyn]

Originally Posted by mikehartigan

I'll never understand why anyone would NEED to tune their 12 string down a full step!

I might add that drop-D tuning, or any alternate tuning, for that matter, is just as lazy as using a capo. You'll never see Tommy Emmanuel doing anything as amateurish as that! (Except when he does, of course)

It's actually very easy to understand if you keep the quote in context and also realize that in the 60s, 12 string guitars were not considered safe to keep in standard tuning. Everyone tuned down a full step or more. A couple of the most famous 12 string players of all time, Lead Belly and Leo Kottke, both used heavier strings and tuned down 2 full steps. By the way, Abbey Road came out in the 60s. And George Harrison played his song "Here Comes the Sun" in capo 7 position. See the "Concert For Bangla Desh".

Actually I did/do both. Learned it back when Abbey Road came out, and used the capo 7 'D' form to play it on 6 string.

Decided I wanted to hear the octave pair sounds from my 12 string, and played it in standard, in the key of A. Since I tuned my 12 string down a full step, this meant I was effectively playing it in G, but I was using that octave pair sound with the bass strings. Sounded great, especially leading the chorus part, "Sun, Sun, Sun, Here it comes".

Your attitude toward capoes and alternate tunings needs some serious adjustment, as many of the best guitarists, including Chet Atkins, used them very effectively, even something as simple as a 'drop D' tuning. Not a 'laugh out loud' moment. And the drone heavy effect of certain tunings makes them ideal for (folk) music from the British Isles. Listen to Tony McManus and see if you can play as well as he does.

There are a lot of excellent reasons for using capoes contained in this thread. Try checking them out and you can learn from them. Otherwise, you will never understand capoes, and also easily prove your own statement,

Originally Posted by mikehartigan

I'll never understand why anyone would NEED to tune their 12 string down a full step!

Don
.

[Nick S]

Sometimes I want to play the G-run, but the song's not in G!

[takamineGD93]

You don't understand that Barry white and richard Simmons has different voice keys? Then I can't help...

[stringbound]

Originally Posted by mikehartigan

I'll never understand why anyone would NEED to tune their 12 string down a full step!

You don't need to, but you get a fuller sound with and you have less tension. Makes playing the guitar easier.

I might add that drop-D tuning, or any alternate tuning, for that matter, is just as lazy as using a capo. You'll never see Tommy Emmanuel doing anything as amateurish as that! (Except when he does, of course)

Actually Tommy Emmanuel is using open and alternate tunings quite often, but he said that he is lazy and doesn't like to retune his guitar between songs. Tommy Emmanuel is also using a capo.

In celtic folk DADGAD and CGCGCD are very common and can be considered the standard tuning of the genre. That has a lot to do with the sound and feel of the music and nothing with being lazy. Playing in open tunings is something you learn and do on top of EADGBE. If I, as a DADGAD player, was lazy, I would simply have stuck with standard tuning, trying to fit the music I play to the tuning.

Then the capo issue. The capo is a creative tool, that enables a guitarist to change the color of the sound of his guitar. That's why flamenco guitarists are using capos quite often, and nobody thinks that flamenco guitarists are lazy.

My conclusion is that what should concern us is the music we play and how we get the best result, when we deliver the music we are playing to our audience. Our audience isn't interested in the tools we use, but in the music they hear. And then there is always this guy, who is making a fuzz about limiting himself...

[mikehartigan]

I must apologize, particularly to donlyn and stringbound, as I didn't make it clear that my comments were largely intended sarcastically (I thought the lol was sufficient). I'm a strong advocate for a capo. While I haven't kept track, I wouldn't be surprised to find I use it for more than 50% of my acoustic work.

As to the rest of my comment, my point was that many people who wouldn't be caught dead using a capo have no problem using alternate tunings, drop-D, etc. But that's substantively the same thing, IMO, in that you're departing from the standard to achieve a certain sound or ease of playability. And there's nothing wrong with that. Stephen Stills and Keith Richards use it to incredible effect.
And I would add that just tuning to EADGBe could be called cheating in this context, since a real expert should be able to bend on the fly to hit the right notes.

[stringbound]

Hi Mike, sorry for overlooking the lol.

[Bluemonk]

Originally Posted by takamineGD93

You don't understand that Barry white and richard Simmons has different voice keys? Then I can't help...

I'm sorry, but your statement makes no sense. They have different ranges, not different keys.

[CASD57]

Ive come to this thread late and im not going to read it all
I can play all the chords in all the positions.
I use a capo because i like the sound i get from it
I use a capo because its easier to hit a Am than a Bm when your signing or the progression in Neil Youngs "Old Man" and sing it Bm7 Fm7 using a capo makes life easier, now if i didn't sing also than i would only use it because i like the tone
Last;
I use it because i can.

[B-Nads]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Vince Gill. He is not a "decent" guitarist.



He is, however, a "great" guitarist...

Monstrous is a better word - I hope it came across that I meant that to be tongue in cheek ;-)

[Rosewood99]

This zombie thread just won't die.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

This zombie thread just won't die.

Go for the head...

[PHJim]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

I understand the "how" and I own several nice ones.
I know that some song lessons call for a capo and some of those songs do sound better with a capo.
But I have never understood why else to use one.
I do not understand how ones voice can be in a specific key.
I watch everyone from Johnny Cash to Neil Young playing open position chords with no capo.
I have been playing 4+ years and just don't get this part at all.

So enlighten me you guitar music wizards.

-The main reason for using a capo is to obtain a voicing for a progression that is difficult or impossible to get without the capo.
-It's also good when there are two or more guitars playing together to capo the guitars apart. (One guitar playing E shapes with no capo and another playing C shapes with the capo at the fourth fret and perhaps D shapes capoed at the second fret for example)
-Your voice does not have a specific key, but it does have a specific range, which means that it might be impossible to sing a specific song in a specific key.
-If you use a capo, it's not necessary to use it on every song. You (and I) have seen Johnny Cash and Neil Young "playing open position chords with no capo" for sure, but we've also seen Johnny Cash and Neil Young playing open position chords with a capo. It depends on whether it's needed.
-Dan Crary was once asked why he played a song with the capo high on the neck instead of playing open chords with no capo. He answered, "Because it sounds so good up there." Sometimes it just sounds really good up there.
Listen to Earl Scruggs playing You Are My Flower with his capo at the 7th fret. It sounds really good up there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA6jWj0bTi8

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by PHJim

-The main reason for using a capo is to obtain a voicing for a progression that is difficult or impossible to get without the capo.
-It's also good when there are two or more guitars playing together to capo the guitars apart. (One guitar playing E shapes with no capo and another playing C shapes with the capo at the fourth fret and perhaps D shapes capoed at the second fret for example)
-Your voice does not have a specific key, but it does have a specific range, which means that it might be impossible to sing a specific song in a specific key.
-If you use a capo, it's not necessary to use it on every song. You (and I) have seen Johnny Cash and Neil Young "playing open position chords with no capo" for sure, but we've also seen Johnny Cash and Neil Young playing open position chords with a capo. It depends on whether it's needed.
-Dan Crary was once asked why he played a song with the capo high on the neck instead of playing open chords with no capo. He answered, "Because it sounds so good up there." Sometimes it just sounds really good up there.
Listen to Earl Scruggs playing You Are My Flower with his capo at the 7th fret. It sounds really good up there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA6jWj0bTi8

Jim, the thread is over 2 year old with over 15 pages of posts. Hence the couple of snarky comments above. But somehow folks seem to keep commenting on it every month or two..

[jimmy bookout]

Originally Posted by PHJim

-The main reason for using a capo is to obtain a voicing for a progression that is difficult or impossible to get without the capo.
-It's also good when there are two or more guitars playing together to capo the guitars apart. (One guitar playing E shapes with no capo and another playing C shapes with the capo at the fourth fret and perhaps D shapes capoed at the second fret for example)
-Your voice does not have a specific key, but it does have a specific range, which means that it might be impossible to sing a specific song in a specific key.
-If you use a capo, it's not necessary to use it on every song. You (and I) have seen Johnny Cash and Neil Young "playing open position chords with no capo" for sure, but we've also seen Johnny Cash and Neil Young playing open position chords with a capo. It depends on whether it's needed.
-Dan Crary was once asked why he played a song with the capo high on the neck instead of playing open chords with no capo. He answered, "Because it sounds so good up there." Sometimes it just sounds really good up there.
Listen to Earl Scruggs playing You Are My Flower with his capo at the 7th fret. It sounds really good up there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA6jWj0bTi8

Sorry, I couldn't listen to the entire thing, he is SO out of tune (bad intonation?) that it made my skin crawl.

[PiousDevil]

Originally Posted by jimmy bookout

Sorry, I couldn't listen to the entire thing, he is SO out of tune (bad intonation?) that it made my skin crawl.

I think most of that is the old recording technology. All of those old recordings sound out of tune.