any shame in piecing together multiple recordings/honour in a single take?

[mc1]

thanks for the replies.

in the end, i got an ok single take and went with that. i couldn't quite go the edit route, nor could i maintain practicing the same piece. so i got the worst of both worlds. but it's honest.

i plan to return to it in a few months or more and try and get a better take.

[SeamusORiley]

Collecting bootlegs; especially during the pre internet days, was an eye opener in so many ways, but in light of this thread, it has been fascinating to hear a bootleg recording of a show, only to compare it to the same released official version...I was surprised to hear so many overdubs of the live show. It isn't just the remixing, but guitar solos that were not in the original, harmony voices, and so on.

[tstrahle]

I do studio work for a living. Sometimes I'll do complete passes perfect, other times we have to "comp" tracks. Sometimes, in pop tracks I'll play something a bunch of times and then we'll go searching for the the one to four bar phrase that has that mojo and loop it. The great thing about that is you can go crazy experimenting and trying things that you would have never done if you were trying to get 80 bars of a perfect take. Here's an example, though I played the opening riff many times just fine, we just chose one or two and went with it as a loop...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxmGDBEnsIw

Here's an example of a Django thing I did for fun. I comped the melody from a couple different takes. Ended up with a couple of licks I never would've have played normally...

https://www.box.com/shared/86xfliszzj

[napman]

Originally Posted by tstrahle

I do studio work for a living.

I went into your blog and YT site, and seriously thought about quitting my guitar fooling around!

IMHO, I think you're one of the best ones right here!

May I ask you about your music education? If you don't mind to reveal

[tstrahle]

Originally Posted by napman

I went into your blog and YT site, and seriously thought about quitting my guitar fooling around!

IMHO, I think you're one of the best ones right here!

May I ask you about your music education? If you don't mind to reveal

Thanks napman. You know I feel so blessed to get to do what I do for a living, for me it's been about growing, adapting and certainly perseverance.

as far as education I took lessons as a kid, and then studied classical guitar in college for a year but dropped out because I was too busy working to keep my studies up. Didn't want to waste my mom's money. So I'm about 90% self taught. Love learning. If I could do nothing else it would be to study and practice. Right now it's flamenco guitar that's kicking my butt. But I love to work on something that I didn't think I could do and get it down.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by tstrahle

I do studio work for a living. Sometimes I'll do complete passes perfect, other times we have to "comp" tracks. Sometimes, in pop tracks I'll play something a bunch of times and then we'll go searching for the the one to four bar phrase that has that mojo and loop it. The great thing about that is you can go crazy experimenting and trying things that you would have never done if you were trying to get 80 bars of a perfect take. Here's an example, though I played the opening riff many times just fine, we just chose one or two and went with it as a loop...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxmGDBEnsIw

Here's an example of a Django thing I did for fun. I comped the melody from a couple different takes. Ended up with a couple of licks I never would've have played normally...

https://www.box.com/shared/86xfliszzj

i dug the django-esque tune, very fine. the repeated guitar riff for the bieber tune also works well. i imagine piecing together parts is the standard method for creating pop tunes these days.

my initial post was really just about solo fingerstyle, but your point about playing it safe still applies. and studio work must have lots of deadlines as well as mixing and editing expertice, so doing 100 takes doesn't make as much sense in that environment. there is still something nice to me about a single 'live' guitar take.

thanks for your knowledgable thoughts.

[tstrahle]

Originally Posted by mc1

my initial post was really just about solo fingerstyle, but your point about playing it safe still applies.

Sorry about that. What software are you using to record? I am currently working on a finger style piece of about 3 and half minutes and recording it for a DVD menu. My plan, because I want the time to be free, is to record it in one pass. And therefore, I'm just woodshedding it because without a tempo and thus a grid, it would be difficult to record it in chances and edit together the final.

However if the track is record enabled then you'll be able to hear yourself and punch in at any desired point whether the track was recorded to a grid or not. But as to the question of any shame in punching in or doing fixes... I don't think so. The goal is a beautiful piece of music. Eventually you'll have to get it down if you are going to perform it live. Sometimes the recording process can be as artful as the writing process and you may end up with a slightly different and better piece because of edits.

That being said, I think we can both agree that copy and pasting in that context would most heinous. Hah. You wouldn't want to do that for a finger style piece. Unless it was a bed for for video and you were going to add other elements as it goes.

Sorry, if I got a little off point in my earlier post.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by tstrahle

Sorry about that. What software are you using to record? I am currently working on a finger style piece of about 3 and half minutes and recording it for a DVD menu. My plan, because I want the time to be free, is to record it in one pass. And therefore, I'm just woodshedding it because without a tempo and thus a grid, it would be difficult to record it in chances and edit together the final.

However if the track is record enabled then you'll be able to hear yourself and punch in at any desired point whether the track was recorded to a grid or not. But as to the question of any shame in punching in or doing fixes... I don't think so. The goal is a beautiful piece of music. Eventually you'll have to get it down if you are going to perform it live. Sometimes the recording process can be as artful as the writing process and you may end up with a slightly different and better piece because of edits.

That being said, I think we can both agree that copy and pasting in that context would most heinous. Hah. You wouldn't want to do that for a finger style piece. Unless it was a bed for for video and you were going to add other elements as it goes.

Sorry, if I got a little off point in my earlier post.

not at all, i thoroughly enjoyed your comments. i was just clarifying my own perspective. these days i'm using a zoom h2n to record with, then i edit it with audacity and reaper. for my amateur recordings, i sometimes wonder about piecing together 2 or 3 takes, just the major sections. i never actually do, but i think about it. lol. but it's made for a very interesting discussion.

i also like the motivation to woodshed as you mentioned. but the only deadlines i have are those i impose on myself.

[tstrahle]

Originally Posted by mc1

but the only deadlines i have are those i impose on myself.

That is what makes a musician pro, the one who can master the art of self motivation.

[Gtrfinger]

Great thread. I was about to post a new thread re "why is it so difficult to play solo fingerstyle absolutely 100% flawlessly, in terms of articulation, execution and dynamics when recording, and how do the professionals like Bensusan and Renbourn manage it", when I came across this thread which seems to answer the question for me: they don't, and I'm setting the bar possibly too high.

When playing live, if you make a little mistake, like a bend which doesn't go high enough, or a beat which lasts slightly too long, there's always the good chance the punter didn't hear it, or even if they did, they can't rewind, and they don't know that what happened wasn't intentional anyway.

I've wasted so much time over the years sitting down to record one PERFECT instrumental, only for it to foul up in the final ten seconds, then doing another take, and another, in the end the performance is totally soulless and mechanical, before giving up in disgust at my lack of ability, and putting the microphones away for another six months, promising myself with more practice I'll get that perfect take. And it doesn't happen. I always thought if I edited the tracks I'd be cheating myself as I didn't think for one minute that the pro's did it.

This thread has inspired me to get that shure sm81 and the akg3000 back out, fire up the old laptop, plug in the emu0404....and just....chill. let it happen.

Thank you.

[KevWind]

So the answer is still No not a bit

[Bern]

Originally Posted by Gtrfinger

I always thought if I edited the tracks I'd be cheating myself as I didn't think for one minute that the pro's did it.

Think of the objective...a recording your happy with and something you can have others enjoy. All other reasoning is garbage. The music counts above all, not the 'challenge' of recording a piece in one take.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by Bern

Think of the objective...a recording your happy with and something you can have others enjoy. All other reasoning is garbage. The music counts above all, not the 'challenge' of recording a piece in one take.

i think it's a little harsh to declare anyone who wants to play and record a good single take as demonstrating garbage reasoning.

i can enjoy live music and live albums, even if they aren't as polished as an edited studio version.

[Bern]

Originally Posted by mc1

i think it's a little harsh to declare anyone who wants to play and record a good single take as demonstrating garbage reasoning.

i can enjoy live music and live albums, even if they aren't as polished as an edited studio version.

There is nothing wrong about having one take. I'm talking about people who need to prove to themselves that they can and forget about the musical part of it. Live recordings is another ballgame...it is what it is.

[MBE]

In solo acoustic guitar instrumentals, I think that editing multiple takes together can end up taking more skill (albeit engineering and not playing) than getting it in one take! Or maybe I don't leave enough pauses in my music