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  #16  
Old 02-20-2019, 03:14 PM
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I agree it's double tracked. The squeeks come in slightly different places in the intro on each side. If you listen to just each side alone, the sound of the guitar isn't all that good (to me). Kind of thin and distant, like it was recorded at the neck/body, but from quite a bit far away. But when you combine the two tracks, the stereo effect makes it sound more dramatic, tho a bit of an odd sound to me. Double tracking does make things sound bigger, but I'd think it would have worked better if the raw sound wasn't so distant and squeeky.

If that's what you're going for, just place 1 mic, aimed at the neck/body joint, maybe 2 or even 3 feet away, then record a second track playing the same thing, and pan each track hard left and right.

But I'd suggest trying a stereo recording with 2 mics, one near the neck/body joint, maybe 10 inches away, the other aimed below the saddle, 10 inches away, hard pan left and right, and see if you also like that - it'd be a lot easier than double tracking everything, and you might just like the sound better.
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  #17  
Old 02-20-2019, 03:16 PM
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I've noticed how no one, so far, has suggested a mic per the OP's request. And I think there's a good reason for that.

The sound has more to do with things other than a mic. But if I were to guess, I'd say the mics used in the recording could be cheap Chinese mics because they sound harsh to me. But then it could be the result of EQing the high end also.

In my opinion, if you want this sound, you certainly don't need to spend the money on Schoeps mics.
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  #18  
Old 02-20-2019, 07:13 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Originally Posted by runamuck View Post
In my opinion, if you want this sound, you certainly don't need to spend the money on Schoeps mics.
Starting with the Schoeps is a nice option though. Getting to that level incrementally is an expensive process that many of us have gone through. I spent a long time buying cheap gear only to replace it in a year or two. The Schoeps are top notch and it's not likely he'll be looking for an upgrade in two years.
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  #19  
Old 02-20-2019, 07:32 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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Originally Posted by boing View Post
I am looking at Schoeps CMC6 MK4, stereo pair. I think this would produce a stereo image that I am looking for, any thoughts here?
A pair of Schoeps CMC64, for recording fingerstyle acoustic or classical guitar, is among the finest mics on the planet. Depending on mic placement, and due to their near unrivaled off axis response, they will generate a superb stereo response. Other mics of similar caliber include (i) Telefunken (USA) M260 and (ii) Microtech Gefell M295 or M296.

As an aside, the recording you posted uses many tweaks that have little to do with the mics (e.g., separte tracking between guitar and vocals, double tracking on the guitar and heavy and a bit unnatural reverb).
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  #20  
Old 02-20-2019, 08:23 PM
runamuck runamuck is offline
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Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
Starting with the Schoeps is a nice option though. Getting to that level incrementally is an expensive process that many of us have gone through. I spent a long time buying cheap gear only to replace it in a year or two. The Schoeps are top notch and it's not likely he'll be looking for an upgrade in two years.
Yeah, I sure wouldn't disagree with that -or sdelsolray's post.
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  #21  
Old 02-21-2019, 05:26 AM
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Sounds fair. I appreciate all the input here. Right now I have very inexpensive mics and have some extra cash to spend on a nice stereo set if need be. Those Schoeps, are they versatile enough for light strumming?
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  #22  
Old 02-21-2019, 08:48 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Those Schoeps, are they versatile enough for light strumming?
Absolutely.
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  #23  
Old 02-21-2019, 09:52 AM
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Oops - already been covered
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  #24  
Old 02-21-2019, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by runamuck View Post
I've noticed how no one, so far, has suggested a mic per the OP's request. And I think there's a good reason for that.

The sound has more to do with things other than a mic. But if I were to guess, I'd say the mics used in the recording could be cheap Chinese mics because they sound harsh to me. But then it could be the result of EQing the high end also.

In my opinion, if you want this sound, you certainly don't need to spend the money on Schoeps mics.
I did suggest the at2035, but yes, it's more than just a mic, but you have to have a good starting point
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  #25  
Old 02-22-2019, 11:47 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
The track the OP referenced has a stereo image. Yours does not so far as I can hear. You won't get a stereo image simply from doubling the track and then panning the identical parts left and right. If one isn't differentiated in some way, it still sounds like it's sitting right in the middle.

What I'm hearing in the Solsbury Hill track is a two mic recording with the left mic pointed at the body somewhere and the right mic at the fret board (notice almost all the fret noise comes from the right side). I'm not sure of the mics involved, but I'd bet I'm hearing a couple of SDCs rather than LDCs, but that could also simply be how it's EQed.
I had very much the same reactions to the recording. I hear the sound of small diaphragm condenser mics aimed as Jim describes above, because this is how I record a guitar. There is more separation in this recording than I hear in mine, and I would suspect that is because the mics are aimed more straight at the guitar and more separated compared to how I set up my mics.

A pair of Rode NT5 mics, which is what I use, are fairly modestly priced, have a good reputation, sound very good, have a very flat frequency response, and have that upper frequency sparkle that I hear in the recording from the OP. Certainly you can spend way more and get perhaps even better sound, but on a budget the Rode NT5 mics sound very good.

I have a pair of Audio Technica AT4050 mics, and they also sound very good and are quite a bit more expensive, but in recent years I have come to appreciate the sound of small diaphragm condenser mics on a guitar. They have such excellent transient response.

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  #26  
Old 02-22-2019, 11:52 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
I agree it's double tracked. The squeeks come in slightly different places in the intro on each side. If you listen to just each side alone, the sound of the guitar isn't all that good (to me). Kind of thin and distant, like it was recorded at the neck/body, but from quite a bit far away. But when you combine the two tracks, the stereo effect makes it sound more dramatic, tho a bit of an odd sound to me. Double tracking does make things sound bigger, but I'd think it would have worked better if the raw sound wasn't so distant and squeeky.

If that's what you're going for, just place 1 mic, aimed at the neck/body joint, maybe 2 or even 3 feet away, then record a second track playing the same thing, and pan each track hard left and right.

But I'd suggest trying a stereo recording with 2 mics, one near the neck/body joint, maybe 10 inches away, the other aimed below the saddle, 10 inches away, hard pan left and right, and see if you also like that - it'd be a lot easier than double tracking everything, and you might just like the sound better.
Interesting comments from Doug Young.

I used to do a lot of double tracking on my acoustic guitars, 20-25 years ago, but I prefer what Doug has recommended these days. I have a lot of guitar recordings on my YouTube channel if you are interested in hearing my results.

In reaction to other comments, Schoeps mics are excellent microphones, but very expensive. I have never been able to make myself spend that kind of money when I have been so pleased by the sound of a couple of Rode NT5 mics. But maybe if I had spent the money on the Schoeps mics, I would already be convinced about their value. Who knows...

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  #27  
Old 02-23-2019, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by russchapman View Post
Listen closely to the occasional difference in voicing of the guitar(s) on the Solbury Hill track. My guess is 2 takes, panned. Much like doubling of a vocal.
That was my thought also, that it is a double tracked guitar part.
The first clue for me was there are some finger squeaks in the right track that are not in the left.
And I agree with Doug it sounds odd, in that to me it sounds like it is more isolated hard left and hard right, than a nice stereo spread.

I have used a two track technique but specifically to make it sound like a trio of guitars with two playing similar but slightly offset rhythm/picking parts from the right and left . With a vocalist playing occasional riffs up the middle
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  #28  
Old 02-23-2019, 08:30 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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That was my thought also, that it is a double tracked guitar part.
The first clue for me was there are some finger squeaks in the right track that are not in the left.
And I agree with Doug it sounds odd, in that to me it sounds like it is more isolated hard left and hard right, than a nice stereo spread.
It's straight out of the Mixerman school of mixing. I'm not saying he invented the technique but, if I'm remembering correctly, in a couple of his books he suggests it as a better alternative to stereo mic-ing a guitar.

I've heard the technique before but in those cases the left and right channel were so different that the double track was obvious. This is the first time I've heard it where the left-right differences were subtle enough to fool me (although I think I'd have picked up on it if I hadn't limited my initial listen to just the guitar intro). I think part of the reason it sounds odd is that the effect gets lost in the arrangement for long stretches when the player falls into the quarter note-quarter note-half note pattern that gets repeated often.
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  #29  
Old 02-24-2019, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
It's straight out of the Mixerman school of mixing. I'm not saying he invented the technique but, if I'm remembering correctly, in a couple of his books he suggests it as a better alternative to stereo mic-ing a guitar.

I've heard the technique before but in those cases the left and right channel were so different that the double track was obvious. This is the first time I've heard it where the left-right differences were subtle enough to fool me (although I think I'd have picked up on it if I hadn't limited my initial listen to just the guitar intro). I think part of the reason it sounds odd is that the effect gets lost in the arrangement for long stretches when the player falls into the quarter note-quarter note-half note pattern that gets repeated often.
Well again "better" so subjective as to be virtually useless as an adjective . That said, it certainly is a viable alternative and I would guess arguably especially if you want to spread the perceived sound perhaps wider than what you get with a stereo mic recording.
I have heard it done one time where the guitarist was so consistent that it did sound like a wider stereo recording .

I tried it once about 10 years ago on my vocal but failed miserably, because I was so distracted when I mistimed a word that I would then screw up even worse on timing trying to get back on time. It was a truly vicious circle Perhaps practice makes perfect, but the experience was so disappointing I gave up and I guess I am too impatient to spend recording time trying
What I do since then is make 3 or 4 vocal passes (but set up "loop playlist" style in Pro Tools) so I am not hearing the previous vocal take. Then I will simply use any good close matches to highlight specific phrases as if they were double tracked
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