Build deposit should hold price

[fregly]

I put a deposit on a build about a yr or so ago. My finances took a turn and I asked for a delay, the money remaining with the maker, and now I am able to start the process again. I contacted, however he will not hold the old price for me. Are there hard rules for this, as I have not ever heard it stated outright. The Luthier has had use of my funds yet I feel no equal reciprocation in the matter, my contribution effectively disappeared into the new price. Surely a deposit puts a stop on price increases. I could see a return of funds at the start would have cleaned the slate and we would be under new terms if I were to restart.

[justonwo]

Originally Posted by fregly

I put a deposit on a build about a yr or so ago. My finances took a turn and I asked for a delay, the money remaining with the maker, and now I am able to start the process again. I contacted, however he will not hold the old price for me. Are there hard rules for this, as I have not ever heard it stated outright. The Luthier has had use of my funds yet I feel no equal reciprocation in the matter, my contribution effectively disappeared into the new price. Surely a deposit puts a stop on price increases. I could see a return of funds at the start would have cleaned the slate and we would be under new terms if I were to restart.

You entered into an agreement. Your deposit held the price. Now you want to change the terms of the agreement and delay the build. And you want the builder to hold your price? If I were the builder I’d do the same thing. The builder could also just say no, I can’t delay your build, and I’m going to keep your deposit.

They have a business to run. If you can’t uphold your end of the deal, then don’t expect them to have infinite flexibility to whatever your financial situation might be.

[stuartb]

There is no right or wrong, and certainly no blame here. Circumstances sometimes change, and what was manageable, can become unmanageable re pricing and financial commitments.

Some builders will hold the price for a period of time. They may have a three- year waiting/buyers list, that they've closed, and the base price remains fixed for those on the list (not necessarily the options, just the base).

Other builders raise their price annually, or biannually, etc., and you pay the market price that exists when your slot comes up. Others hold their price firm based on the original estimate. Each builder has his own set of business rules and it's wise to understand a particular builders' rules at the outset. It certainly varies from builder to builder.

But it is the builder's decision.

I've experienced a build where I had the base price and a few chosen options priced when I submitted the deposit, and those prices were held fixed over an approximate two-year waiting period, but any option that I did not commit to at that time was subject to an adjustment to market pricing in place when the guitar was completed. I didn't see that coming.

It's important to remember that builders are simply running a business. I would be asking what the estimated price will now be, including desired options, and I'd make a decision to stay or sacrifice the deposit, depending on the circumstances and whether there were any alternative builders you were considering at the time you made your initial decision. Or you could wait until the commitment to purchase a guitar is not putting financial pressure on you. Your decision may also be influenced by how significant the deposit was.

Hopefully, the pricing difference isn't too great.

Bottom line, there ain't no set of definitive rules. Particularly over recent years, with prices having gone up so much for some builders.

Stuart

[Guitars44me]

Although the phrasing sounds a bit harsh, I believe Juston is correct.

Builders need to increase prices just to keep up with inflation.

Unfortunate that you needed to delay, but stuff happens.

I hope you get the guitar of your dreams and it floats your boat!

Best on the axe!

Paul

[fregly]

Originally Posted by justonwo

You entered into an agreement. Your deposit held the price. Now you want to change the terms of the agreement and delay the build. And you want the builder to hold your price? If I were the builder I’d do the same thing. The builder could also just say no, I can’t delay your build, and I’m going to keep your deposit.

They have a business to run. If you can’t uphold your end of the deal, then don’t expect them to have infinite flexibility to whatever your financial situation might be.

There was no agreement on price hold Juston, so it was somewhat his whim and overextends the meaning of non refundable, and simply shifting my slot forward some hurts him little, while my deposit got erased. He may have a business but my funds do not come from a tree in the yard, so our needs are not less than equivalent. I submit my loss is greater, his was a bit of note taking. If it were a matter of yrs I could understand.....but in this case I effectively receive nothing on my end for handing over funds.

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by fregly

Surely a deposit puts a stop on price increases.

It did until you delayed.

It really is as simple as that.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by fitness1

It did until you delayed.

It really is as simple as that.

Exactly. From the sound of it, you placed a non-refundable deposit for a slot in the builder’s build queue. The price at the time of deposit was locked in. When your slot came up, you asked the builder to delay. If you had said that you no longer wanted the guitar, or couldn’t afford to pay the next installment, etc., the builder could keep the deposit, since it was non-refundable. Most builders are sympathetic to customers’ financial hardships, so agreeing to extend is an accommodation. The only thing is, customers who came after you at some point have agreed to pay the builder’s higher price (and possibly make a larger initial deposit). It seems fair to me for the builder to delay the build but charge the builder’s current price, as if the builder had refunded the (non-refundable) deposit for the old slot and taken a new deposit for the new slot.

[jerrydlamme123]

Originally Posted by fitness1

It did until you delayed.



It really is as simple as that.

Makes sense. But usually a builder should inform customer that the price lock will be released before accepting the delay?
As we are talking about agreement，I would assume any changes to the agreed terms (time，funds) should be agreed by both parties before it happens.

[gstring]

How much of a price difference will this make ?

d

[H165]

But usually a builder should inform customer that the price lock will be released before accepting the delay?
As we are talking about agreement，I would assume any changes to the agreed terms (time，funds) should be agreed by both parties before it happens.

This is exactly what is happening:

I am able to start the process again. I contacted, however he will not hold the old price for me.

We do not know whether the builder informed the customer of the terms of the delay. As of now, we know both the buyer (delay) and the builder (price) have proposed terms of a new agreement. They have not yet agreed to anything. The customer and builder are currently bound by the original agreement (including the agreed non-refundable deposit). To me, they appear to be in the middle of negotiating a new agreement, or completing the terms of the original agreement.

It also appears to me the customer must make this decision, as he is the one bound by the original agreement. The delay was his first decision, to avoid the outright loss of his deposit.

[TomB'sox]

I do not think there is a right or wrong here as I can see it both ways, we are only hearing one side of it though. I would have thought the builder would have mentioned that delaying the process would remove the price lock or the buyer should have asked that at the time. As in most things, communication will stop most situations from becoming adversarial.

I know some builders with long lists, say over several years, that have closed their lists because three years from now they are still building guitars at a price from 3 years back while during that time, supply costs and just about everything else has gone up for them, but they are honoring the price paid when the deposit was made. To me, that does not seem fair to the builder.

[lfarhadi]

Originally Posted by fregly

Surely a deposit puts a stop on price increases.

Actually, many luthiers take a deposit to hold your place, then ultimately charge based on future list price (2025, 2026 etc).

[fregly]

Originally Posted by lfarhadi

Actually, many luthiers take a deposit to hold your place, then ultimately charge based on future list price (2025, 2026 etc).

It would be an small percentage of the guitar market that would accept this scenario, so moneyed they need not think of such things.

[fregly]

I accept the requirement of a non refundable deposite for luthiers, but this was the only written provision in our agreement. My delay was actually rather short and did not change the cue much so in spirit I do not see the difference. The luthier is not put out much and his negation of my not insignficant outlay seems arbitrary to me, and frankly can be done cause he has me by the you know whats and I can do nothing about it. I lose my deposit if I do the build or dont do the build. As it is now it has become distastful and I would rather not continue, so the consequence then for him is a loss of multiple times my deposit. In the end he should respect the original agreement and not split hairs over my minor delay, I mean my restart is surely beneficial to the luthier. It is like I am being fined for the happy surprise of extra income, you never know if the customer is actually coming back. If it were me I would let it go without thinking.

[rule18]

Originally Posted by fregly

I accept the requirement of a non refundable deposite for luthiers, but this was the only written provision in our agreement. My delay was actually rather short and did not change the cue much so in spirit I do not see the difference. The luthier is not put out much and his negation of my not insignficant outlay seems arbitrary to me, and frankly can be done cause he has me by the you know whats and I can do nothing about it. I lose my deposit if I do the build or dont do the build. As it is now it has become distastful and I would rather not continue, so the consequence then for him is a loss of multiple times my deposit. In the end he should respect the original agreement and not split hairs over my minor delay, I mean my restart is surely beneficial to the luthier. It is like I am being fined for the happy surprise of extra income, you never know if the customer is actually coming back. If it were me I would let it go without thinking.

Hi. Apologies if I missed this detail in a previous post but you've said that your delay was "actually rather short". Would you define what that time period was?