The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 07-22-2011, 11:26 AM
rb1591 rb1591 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 435
Default Audio file?

Bravebone,
I'd love to hear an audio file of your rig.
rb
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-23-2011, 06:17 AM
bravebone bravebone is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: arlington va
Posts: 69
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rb1591 View Post
Bravebone,
I'd love to hear an audio file of your rig.
rb
rb, I can do that but it will take a little time. I'm in the midst of finishing a fingerstyle CD then I'm off on vacation but I'll make a recording when I get back.
jeff
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-23-2011, 06:11 PM
GanAinm GanAinm is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 128
Default

Hi guys. A few questions for Bravebone and Doug and guitarisrshevy:

What was it like soldering the fine wire of the 4060? (I'd heard it was really challenging, and my soldering skills top out at regular 1/4" guitar cables and xlr's.)

Do you find the 4060 (and 4061) to be feedback sensitive in this application? I ask because, while it is arguably the finest mini-mic, it is an omni that is fairly sensitive.

[As a point of reference, I believe the K&K silver bullet that is packaged with the K&K dual source is a "soft cardioid" (pattern looks about halfway between a cardioid and an omni), whereas the AKG C416L that Chris uses is a hyper-cardioid, and the DPA 4099 is a super-cardioid.]

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-23-2011, 06:46 PM
GanAinm GanAinm is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 128
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
...
I've recently simplified this on several guitars after picking up a pickup/mic module for my SPS1. The module provides phantom for the mic, and amplification, so I no longer need the DTar preamp, and the SPS-1 module is likely higher qualty anyway. So now, my setup is simply K&K mini + mic wired to the K&K ring, no preamp or battery in the guitar, just about as simple as you can get. - the highest tech part is the radio shack wire clip with double sticky tape that holds the mic.
Hi Doug, so you are going from the SPS-1 module at the endpin to your SPS-1, right?, and from there to amp or board? Or do you ever skip the SPS-1 and go from module to amp or board?
And if you're using the SPS-1 for all your gigs, are you using both channels to EQ the mic and p/u separately, and do you have a handy way of keeping things compact and carrying it so the rack ears don't catch. etc?

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-23-2011, 06:52 PM
rb1591 rb1591 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 435
Default audio file

Jeff,
Sure. Have a great vacation. I'm sure there will be a whole host of folks who will want to hear your rig anytime. This conversation has been going for years and likely will carry on and on.

rb
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07-23-2011, 08:47 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 2,430
Default Aloha GanAinm

Aloha GanAnm,

Can't speak for Doug, but I use an SPS-1 for all my gigs.

RE: Using The SPS-1 Module.The plug-in modules are designed to be plugged into & work with the rack unit, using a great dual cable & XLR (18' Canare/Neutrik). BUT, Gregg @ Pendulum will modify the ends of any of his modules so that the cable is split in two & balanced XLR plugs are put on the ends. This way, the module can be used with two channels of ANY mixer that provides 48V phantom power. And you separately EQ those two & blend at the board.

I have a modded module that I bring if I know the board & the soundguy & don't want to bring my whole rig - like to a party or a larger stage event w/ a house system. That works very well in giving me the basic sound & module-mounted volume & blending controls I like. BUT it does NOT give me the great parametric EQ of the SPS-1's rack unit which is the room control I need for most gigs & better than the EQ found on most live mixers.

I only use this modded module a coupla times a year - tomorrow night will be a gig that I will use it at (tight stage & a bit loud - outdoor blues party honoring visiting artist Stefan George).

Check out the SPS-1:

http://www.pendulumaudio.com/SPS-1.html

RE: Using the SPS-1 for multi-source pickup systems. In my three gigging guitars, I often split the pickup (K&K mini) into the left channel & the internal mic (AKG 416 condenser) into the right channel & separately EQ them - the best solution.

Many times, with a push of a buttom, I combine the pickup/mic combo into the left channel & EQ them together. Then I use the right channel for a great vocal mic, an external guitar mic, or rarely, the Magmic magnetic I put in if it's a loud situation. It eliminates the need for bringing a mixer.

Re: Portability of the SPS-1. It is not a problem to schlepp & I'm almost 63 & live 500' from my car in a rainforest. I have the SPS-1 (one space), a TC Electronics M-2000 FX unit (one space) & my Parasound 2125 poweramp (two spaces) all in a four-space Odyssey BR-418 rack bag. It is a black-felt lined, plywood case w/ rack mounts that slides into padded bag that has its own wheels & telescopic handle. Great protection, easy to move (like luggage).

I chose the 18" model rack bag because it has more depth. That allows me to keep all the connections intact much of the time. I roll it into the gig. Unzip the front & the back. Plug it in to a wall wart. Plug in a mic & the cables to my Koa Daedalus 803's speakers & that's it. Easy. The EQ settings are what change greatly from gig to gig, depending on the venue.

Hope this helps.

alohachris

Last edited by alohachris; 07-23-2011 at 09:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 07-23-2011, 09:49 PM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 9,879
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GanAinm View Post

What was it like soldering the fine wire of the 4060? (I'd heard it was really challenging, and my soldering skills top out at regular 1/4" guitar cables and xlr's.)
Yep, the wire is very thin - tricky. I've done quite a few now and do ok at it, but it's not the easiest.

Quote:
Do you find the 4060 (and 4061) to be feedback sensitive in this application? I ask because, while it is arguably the finest mini-mic, it is an omni that is fairly sensitive.
Definitely a concern if you play loud. For most gigs I play, I have no problem, and I can control how much mic I use, down to zero if needed. I've seen Laurence juber play in large venues, with his similar Audix mic, fairly loud, and with good sound system, he seems to do ok. I once saw him get feedback when he stepped directly in front of a monitor. I doubt that the polar pattern matters all that much when you're talking about an internal mic. Maybe a little. I think feedback has more to do with your setup, the quality and location of your sound system. For example, that sound on sound article I mentioned talked about having 60 or so 4060s on stage at rock concert volumes. Of course that's with a serious sound system, not playing thru a combo amp.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-23-2011, 10:00 PM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 9,879
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GanAinm View Post
Hi Doug, so you are going from the SPS-1 module at the endpin to your SPS-1, right?, and from there to amp or board? Or do you ever skip the SPS-1 and go from module to amp or board?
And if you're using the SPS-1 for all your gigs, are you using both channels to EQ the mic and p/u separately, and do you have a handy way of keeping things compact and carrying it so the rack ears don't catch. etc?

Thanks
Right, I just have the sps1 in a soft 2u rack, along with a reverb. Its no bigger than the pedal board I used to have with a few gizmos on it, and is easy to carry - guitar in one hand, rack in the other. If I need my own pa, add a pair of qsc k10's, and I'm all set. I don't have the modded module that can direct to a board. Like Chris, I usually use the 2 channels to eq differently, mostly just rolling a little low end off the mic. I also sometimes use the sps1's ability to route both to channel so I can use the 2nd channel for something else, at the cost of separate eq. I also have a raven labs pmb1 that works just fine and is much smaller. And I can also use a Baggs Mixpro, which fits in the guitar case compartment. Both of these can blend the kk and mic and provide phantom.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-30-2011, 10:46 AM
Klef Klef is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southwest Rockies
Posts: 266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Here you go. We've actually discussed this several times here recently. I got this mic placement and basic idea from Laurence Juber, who uses an Audix mic in this location (with the Wavelength UST and preamp). After seeing and hearing his, I hooked up a similar mic, the DPA 4061 in the same location, and also liked the results. Laurence has a nice, neat-looking black foam block that holds his mic, I first assembled a block with velcro and foam, and then saw Teja Gerken using a radio shack cable clip along with a bit of foam to make a neater-looking holder:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062666



This is the position Laurence uses, right in the middle, bottom of the soundhole, just inside the edge. On some other guitars, I have to move it slightly one way or another to accommodate bracing, which doesn't seem to make much difference.

The DPA's are pricey new, they're a very good mic, $400-500. But they come up on ebay used all the time, much cheaper. I almost grabbed 4 of them for $400 today, so $100 each, but decided I didn't really need 4 more. I know someone who got 2 for $100 total a while back, again used, but working. These are used in broadway plays, and come up with broken connectors and so on. Since I'm cutting them off and soldering them in, it's not a problem.

Doug
I'm interested in the exact method of wiring here. The DPA kit includes a connection that is said to have a step-down transformer whatever that is. Do you bypass this device when you wire to a K&K Mini?
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-30-2011, 11:30 AM
guitarisrshevy guitarisrshevy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GanAinm View Post
Do you find the 4060 (and 4061) to be feedback sensitive in this application? I ask because, while it is arguably the finest mini-mic, it is an omni that is fairly sensitive.
I only use maybe 10-15% mic in my mix. The preamp i use has EQ for the output signal and so i mix maybe 60% M1 volume with 10% mic and then EQ the whole thing.

For me, the mic removes the electric mids and adds that round warm bass that makes the system sound like my acoustic. I usually have 2 monitors set at 11 and 2 with the signal split at about 50% to each which cuts down on feedback but if im not careful i can get huge amounts of feedback.

I'll post a comparison of a large condenser mic vs the dual source i use.
__________________
Dave King 000-12- Engelmann/ Madi Rosewood
Epiphone 1966 Century
Fylde Alexander- Engelmann/ Rio Rosewood
Fylde Falstaff- Sitka/ Rio Rosewood
Maestro 00-IR- Adi/ Rosewood
Yamaha LL-16D- Spruce/ Rosewood in Black
David Oddy Mandocello- Sitka/ Indian Rosewood
G7th Capos and Elixir Nanoweb PB 13-56
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 07-30-2011, 01:06 PM
guitarisrshevy guitarisrshevy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 100
Default

Heres a recording of a sE electronics 2200T and the pickups i use.

I recorded the mic with nothing but a small amount of bass roll off as i would to record in my studio.

I EQ'd the M1 and DPA mix as i would if i was playing live, some low and high mid and bass roll off and some 'presence', so the gap between high mids and treble. The mix is 55% M1 volume and 15% DPA 4060, which equates to about 80% M1 to 20% DPA overall.

They are recorded into garageband simultaneously, the first minute is the 2200T the second minute is my pickup and mic setup.

http://soundcloud.com/dshevelewmusic/mic-vs-dpa-and-m1
__________________
Dave King 000-12- Engelmann/ Madi Rosewood
Epiphone 1966 Century
Fylde Alexander- Engelmann/ Rio Rosewood
Fylde Falstaff- Sitka/ Rio Rosewood
Maestro 00-IR- Adi/ Rosewood
Yamaha LL-16D- Spruce/ Rosewood in Black
David Oddy Mandocello- Sitka/ Indian Rosewood
G7th Capos and Elixir Nanoweb PB 13-56
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 07-30-2011, 01:16 PM
Klef Klef is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southwest Rockies
Posts: 266
Default

Great post. Nice playing. Great sound.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 07-30-2011, 04:53 PM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 9,879
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klef View Post
I'm interested in the exact method of wiring here. The DPA kit includes a connection that is said to have a step-down transformer whatever that is. Do you bypass this device when you wire to a K&K Mini?
The kit is to allow it to be used with balanced 48 volt phantom power. I don't use that, and I cut off the connector. Its no different than any guitar mic - hot wire to the ring, ground to ground, and use a preamp that supplies 9 volts unbalanced phantom power
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 07-31-2011, 11:13 AM
Klef Klef is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southwest Rockies
Posts: 266
Default

Ahh, now I think I get it. And if I'm going to move the mic between guitars, I'd be best off using the XLR connector as intended, and suffering the old wire out the soundhole scenario. That may work OK, though, as my gigs will be infrequent and I'm not particularly rambunctious.
Thanks, Doug, for your sharing your know-how.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 07-31-2011, 07:50 PM
WGTroutman WGTroutman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Western Kentucky
Posts: 454
Default

I just bought some of those clips, and affixed my trinity mic in the aforementioned position.

sounds good; will be upgrading to a better mic soon.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=