TLM 103 vs c414 XLii

[min7b5]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Austrian Audio makes a clone of the classic 414. Made in Austria. Their claim is they are using top components and even some of AKG engineers from the past. The demo videos do sound good. At the same time a nice price as well.
https://austrian.audio/

Very intriguing. Dual output for the figure eight pattern could make for some interesting mid/side fun..

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by min7b5

Very intriguing. Dual output for the figure eight pattern could make for some interesting mid/side fun..

While I have not tried Mid-side myself, I am a big fan of it from hearing people like Doug Young and others use it. Mid side gives a solid sound that is hard to deny.

I have heard several Mid Side recording using 414 and 451...that gives just such a solid acoustic guitar representation. Or at least, I think so.

Here is one from the Australian Based Acoustic dealer using these two in combination.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ruztmWgY4M

[lkingston]

My son uses an AKG 414 for vocals and has done some wonderful sounding recordings with it. It does pick up a lot of the room, so he uses it mostly in a closet where he has arranged his clothes to make it into a sound booth.

I second what others have said about the AT4050 being a wonderful vocal mic.

[PANDAPANDELO]

Just for you guys know: I have decided to go with a Neumann u87ai for vocals and a pair of KM184. I am using them in this live recording of Right Here Waiting, from Richard Marx.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H77Kw65Lpw

The KM184 are in ORTF, and even with a bad room, with minimal treatment, I liked the results. I need to work on my mixing skills and room treatment for a better and cleaner results.

[min7b5]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

.. I have heard several Mid Side recording using 414 and 451..

I've posted a quite a few things on Youtube myself using that exact combo. I really like it. The Austrian Audio's due output would allow, I think anyway, to have those two side tracks to their own separate stereo track to perhaps process differently with reverb etc in a convenient way.

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO

Just for you guys know: I have decided to go with a Neumann u87ai for vocals and a pair of KM184. I am using them in this live recording of Right Here Waiting, from Richard Marx.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H77Kw65Lpw



The KM184 are in ORTF, and even with a bad room, with minimal treatment, I liked the results. I need to work on my mixing skills and room treatment for a better and cleaner results.

It certainly sounds good. The Neumann u87ai complements your voice well and the recording sounds good in that room.

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

FWIW, over the years there have been something like 11 different, distinct varieties of the "414." They all sound different. But I've never encountered inconsistencies between specimens of the same exact model, not counting the vast difference between the original brass capsule and the factor-refurb teflon capsule in the early EB and EB P48 models.

I just returned 3 new 414s. Beside each having varying output levels (over a 6 dB difference through the same pre at the same gain setting), the build quality was embarrassing. The selector buttons/switches were misaligned on 2 of the 3.

I love my plastic ringed 414s and even my later b/uls version...but there are far too many great options to be putting up with these kinds of issues.

[alohachris]

Aloha Friends,

I've been coming to the 'RECORD' forum at AGF for some 20 years. We talk passionately here about gear (or treatment - Ha!), getting deeply at times into the minutiae & complexities of topics like DAW recording, mic options & opinions, or affording complementary signal chains. That's fine for a great "gear site" where most of the participants are mature veteran players.

And man, we sure do love a well-played & well-recorded solo guitar instrumental. When old friends like Doug, Eric, Anton or Derek share a solo piece here with us it is always a wonderful experience. And we listen & learn. And appreciate.

But this fellow Rodrigo Pandelo is sharing some very serious talent here, especially his outstanding vocals. He has some real gifts, friends. And he just got started a couple years back. I hope we can appreciate it as much as solo guitar pieces.

Rodrigo takes love songs like this Richard Marx classic, adds his own brand of feelings, & truly makes the songs he plays come alive, & truly become his own. What's even more amazing is that even though Rodrigo sings & speaks English well, Brazilian Portuguese is his native tongue. That's where you can really hear the nuances & passion in this young man's music, friends.

It is great that Rodrigo has been able to quickly transition to some world-class mic's, especially that very smooth U87ai. I feel that his talent deserves it. He seems to be working progressively on treating his space & planning, assembling & mastering his live & studio recording chains very effectively for this stage of his career. And he's a regular gigger.

Finally, I just wanted to make sure that Rodrigo Pandelo hears from at least one former gear-head here that his talent is greatly respected & appreciated. I hope he goes as far as he can as a performer. Listening to his music, he sure seems like a great guy. His music inspires. Rodrigo is a great addition to the 'RECORD' forum. And a real talent.

Here is Rodrigo from his youtube channel, in his native language, "Sem Radar."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yl48-7T0yg

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by min7b5

I've posted a quite a few things on Youtube myself using that exact combo. I really like it. The Austrian Audio's due output would allow, I think anyway, to have those two side tracks to their own separate stereo track to perhaps process differently with reverb etc in a convenient way.

I don't think this would be quite the same thing as mid-side. More like using three mics, one middle, the other two pointing cross-ways and panned. Similar, tho, I guess. I have the Townsend mic, which works the same way, and you can manipulate the polar pattern(s) among many other things after the fact during mixing. I'll see how it works in this kind of setup. It sounds quite good just as a stereo mic, with no mid mic required.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO

Just for you guys know: I have decided to go with a Neumann u87ai for vocals and a pair of KM184. I am using them in this live recording of Right Here Waiting, from Richard Marx.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H77Kw65Lpw

The KM184 are in ORTF, and even with a bad room, with minimal treatment, I liked the results. I need to work on my mixing skills and room treatment for a better and cleaner results.

Sounds fantastic PANDAPANDELO! Your voice is coming across with a beautiful brush strokes of warmth & breath....

Sounds very finished. Your mixing skills sound quite good to me.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Sounds fantastic PANDAPANDELO! Your voice is coming across with a beautiful brush strokes of warmth & breath....

Sounds very finished. Your mixing skills sound quite good to me.

Sounds very nice to me!

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I don't think this would be quite the same thing as mid-side. More like using three mics, one middle, the other two pointing cross-ways and panned. Similar, tho, I guess. I have the Townsend mic, which works the same way, and you can manipulate the polar pattern(s) among many other things after the fact during mixing. I'll see how it works in this kind of setup. It sounds quite good just as a stereo mic, with no mid mic required.

Off topic of this thread, so I won't go into detail, but I just tried this with the Townsend, and as I suspected, just using the two counter-facing capsules + a mid mic doesn't produce a particularly interesting stereo sound, definitely not mid-side-like. Kind of like having XY+a 3rd center mic. At least on the L22, both capsules are in phase with each other by default, so it just sounds like 3 mics (tho with a lot of flexibility in mic choice, polar patterns and more). I can however, flip the phase of one side which gets interesting, or use the polar pattern control to create a figure-8 mic, and then you're in normal mid-side land. I'll play with it some more and start a new thread if I come up with anything interesting.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO

Just for you guys know: I have decided to go with a Neumann u87ai for vocals and a pair of KM184. I am using them in this live recording of Right Here Waiting, from Richard Marx.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H77Kw65Lpw

The KM184 are in ORTF, and even with a bad room, with minimal treatment, I liked the results. I need to work on my mixing skills and room treatment for a better and cleaner results.

I ordered pair of KM184s and a U87ai on the same day about 5 years ago, and I'm still as happy with that trio today! So I know how you feel! And the Your recording sounds great and you're only going to sound better as you go! Fantastic!

[PANDAPANDELO]

I am trully glad to read great feedbacks from my good friend Chris, Doug, Rockabilly and lkingston. It really is. I am new to all of this recording and mixing world, and it is really nice to hear that I'm going in a good direction.

Thank you... really!

I went from a AT2035 to record my acoustic to a pair of KM184. The ballance is huge! I used the ORTF method, and I really liked it! I might try the vertical XY method, also. I heard a recording made that way and it sounded sooooo balanced for my ears. It might be the mixing skills of the engineer, as well... I might try that out.

Has anyone here tested that XY Vertical? And do you guys think it might be nice to try a little spaced pair (around 20 centimeters, maybe 30) in vertical, also. Just to have a little more space in the stereo image. It might be interesting... maybe a little less string articulation, but I could work to get at least one of the mics to get a little of that!

[min7b5]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

...It sounds quite good just as a stereo mic, with no mid mic required.

Interesting

Originally Posted by Doug Young

.. I'll play with it some more and start a new thread if I come up with anything interesting.