Casein pick care?

[DesertTwang]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Actually, Daniel, that's a very old pick design that was in common use a century ago. I've found them in old mandolin case pockets more than once, made out of either celluloid and genuine tortoiseshell.


whm

Interesting. Now that you mention it, I found such an artifact in the back pocket of my lederhosen, a long time ago...

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

Very interesting, Scott. Thank you for sharing that information. That "two-tip" pick you found ebay is the most bizarre-looking pick I've ever seen. I can't really believe it's meant to play a guitar. Probably some other instrument I'm not familiar with.

Daniel, I don't normally offer this, but I've got a really clean used Red Bear lying around the shop. It's a teardrop with grip holes (not sure how thick). I could probably work a deal for you on this. If interested, please take it off the board and PM me here, or email direct at: charmedlifepicks @ gmail.

Folks, one more thing to mention about casein (I may be repeating myself in this thread, due to old age). Like genuine TS, casein picks will tend to spoon out or curve just slightly over time. The warmth of your thumb causes this. Personally, I like it, but some don't. You can keep it under a book with bricks on top of it, or even gently in a vise to straighten it if so desired.

Just another nightmare in the journey to the world's best plectrum. It makes a fabulous pick, but you have no idea how nightmarish this stuff is to work with.

mems

[stringjunky]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

Daniel, I don't normally offer this, but I've got a really clean used Red Bear lying around the shop. It's a teardrop with grip holes (not sure how thick). I could probably work a deal for you on this. If interested, please take it off the board and PM me here, or email direct at: charmedlifepicks @ gmail.

Folks, one more thing to mention about casein (I may be repeating myself in this thread, due to old age). Like genuine TS, casein picks will tend to spoon out or curve just slightly over time. The warmth of your thumb causes this. Personally, I like it, but some don't. You can keep it under a book with bricks on top of it, or even gently in a vise to straighten it if so desired.

Just another nightmare in the journey to the world's best plectrum. It makes a fabulous pick, but you have no idea how nightmarish this stuff is to work with.

mems

What minimum thickness stays flat would you say?

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by stringjunky2

What minimum thickness stays flat would you say?

I just posted a long response and AGF ate it, so I'll have to make this shorter. Argh! Believe it or not, it varies according to the coloring agent. Really bizarre.

The standard faux tortoise has minimum warping. However, that being said, on teardrops you're looking in the range of about 1.15-1.25 mm. On large tri it's a different ballgame, because the "field" (surface area, in sq mm's) is more than double your standard Fender 351 shape teardrop. In tris, then, you're looking in the range of 1.30-1.40 mm, somewhere in there, to have a perfectly flat casein pick for the long term.

Another thing: Casein HATES heat. Keeping it in a cool dry place is best. It will actually warp a bit if left in a car during a hot summer day.

Really terrible stuff to deal with, but the results are a stunningly good plectrum.

hope this helps,
scott

[stringjunky]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

I just posted a long response and AGF ate it, so I'll have to make this shorter. Argh! Believe it or not, it varies according to the coloring agent. Really bizarre.

The standard faux tortoise has minimum warping. However, that being said, on teardrops you're looking in the range of about 1.15-1.25 mm. On large tri it's a different ballgame, because the "field" (surface area, in sq mm's) is more than double your standard Fender 351 shape teardrop. In tris, then, you're looking in the range of 1.30-1.40 mm, somewhere in there, to have a perfectly flat casein pick for the long term.

Another thing: Casein HATES heat. Keeping it in a cool dry place is best. It will actually warp a bit if left in a car during a hot summer day.

Really terrible stuff to deal with, but the results are a stunningly good plectrum.

hope this helps,
scott

Thanks. I've just ordered a 1.25 from a guy in the UK who's been learning about and working with this stuff for two years. He says he hasn't reached perfection yet but he thinks it's usable and stable. It piqued my interest and it's not massively expensive, so I thought I'll give it a whirl. He makes his from scratch. He's apparently had to read very old books to get clues on making it and working with it. I suspect I'll have to put my own bevel edge on.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by stringjunky2

Thanks. I've just ordered a 1.25 from a guy in the UK who's been learning about and working with this stuff for two years. He says he hasn't reached perfection yet but he thinks it's usable and stable. It piqued my interest and it's not massively expensive, so I thought I'll give it a whirl. He makes his from scratch. He's apparently had to read very old books to get clues on making it and working with it. I suspect I'll have to put my own bevel edge on.

Sounds like a good way to go. It's really hard for folks in international markets to buy picks and other accessories for a reasonable price. I know that UK has heavy duties, etc. Also, casein material is slightly brittle, so a pick cannot be sent in a plain white envelop; the rollers in the USPS crush and break them. So one can be looking at $15-20 for shipment of a single pick. Kinda ridiculous.

The stuff is difficult all the way around, but the polishing and buffing will make you throw dogs across the room. It's just maddening, because it shows every little micro-scratch. It took me almost three years to get the hang of it, but that's only because I'm so stubborn and mean (ask my wife).

BTW, the good news: As long as it's sanded out to about 1500-2000 grit it will move across the strings just fine. In fact a lot of players like a slightly roughened surface, which improves grit.

Casein plastic was discovered in Germany in 1895, and has been popular in Europe for well over 100 years. It never really caught on in the States, so the last remaining manufacturers are either in the Continent or Asia.

Enjoy. Give us a report later. Wonderful material to play.

scott memmer

[stringjunky]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

Sounds like a good way to go. It's really hard for folks in international markets to buy picks and other accessories for a reasonable price. I know that UK has heavy duties, etc. Also, casein material is slightly brittle, so a pick cannot be sent in a plain white envelop; the rollers in the USPS crush and break them. So one can be looking at $15-20 for shipment of a single pick. Kinda ridiculous.

The stuff is difficult all the way around, but the polishing and buffing will make you throw dogs across the room. It's just maddening, because it shows every little micro-scratch. It took me almost three years to get the hang of it, but that's only because I'm so stubborn and mean (ask my wife).

BTW, the good news: As long as it's sanded out to about 1500-2000 grit it will move across the strings just fine. In fact a lot of players like a slightly roughened surface, which improves grit.

Casein plastic was discovered in Germany in 1895, and has been popular in Europe for well over 100 years. It never really caught on in the States, so the last remaining manufacturers are either in the Continent or Asia.

Enjoy. Give us a report later. Wonderful material to play.

scott memmer

Will do Scott.

[DesertTwang]

Originally Posted by stringjunky2

What minimum thickness stays flat would you say?

I'd say 2 mm would be thick enough to prevent any warping. For me personally, any pick thicker than 1.5mm sucks too much volume, so I only use picks between 1 and 1.25 mm thick. I've had a couple of John Pearse' Fast Turtle picks in the "thin" variety, which are 1.2 mm in thickness, and they both warped. Not in a bad way, they just molded to my thumb. It's the body heat that does it. I happen to like this, but I could see it being a nuisance for others. Recently, I found a Fast Turtle pick in "extra thin," which I hadn't seen before and ordered it. It's only 1mm "thick" and arrived in the mail already curved. Luckily in the right direction so it hugs my thumb the way I like it. (The Fast Turtles are asymmetric, so if I preferred to hold the pick the other way, I'd hate the curvature.)

[DesertTwang]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

Also, casein material is slightly brittle, so a pick cannot be sent in a plain white envelop; the rollers in the USPS crush and break them.

Agree with Scott's assessment, and would even go a step further and say, "extremely brittle." My first Fast Turtle pick developed a few slight cracks, and at the time, I didn't understand why. Now I know — it's living in Arizona. The pick still worked fine, so I wrote it off as a cosmetic issue. Then one day, I tried to flex it very carefully and ever so slightly, and the pick immediately broke in half.

So yes, my recommendation is if you have casein picks, treat them like an expensive guitar, and do not ever attempt to flex them, even slightly.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

Agree with Scott's assessment, and would even go a step further and say, "extremely brittle." My first Fast Turtle pick developed a few slight cracks, and at the time, I didn't understand why. Now I know — it's living in Arizona. The pick still worked fine, so I wrote it off as a cosmetic issue. Then one day, I tried to flex it very carefully and ever so slightly, and the pick immediately broke in half.

So yes, my recommendation is if you have casein picks, treat them like an expensive guitar, and do not ever attempt to flex them, even slightly.

Daniel, ditto. When we ship one to a customer we provide an entire sheet we call "Care & Feeding of Your Casein Pick." We also put a big red sticker that says, "DON'T BEND!" right on the front of the little baggie that holds the pick.

BTW, folks, a word of advice: If you own a casein pick and hand it to a friend, you must say (and make sure they've heard it), "Don't Bend it!". For some reason, the first thing every human wants to do is flex a pick. On a casein pickm, anything around of under will immediately SNAP!

Lastly, we discovered that one cannot ship these in a regular envelope. Apparently the rollers USPS uses for auto-reading of their addresses use a lot of pressure -- they break casein picks. So if you send one to a friend or such, make sure to use a bubble pack envelope with tracking and some cardboard reinforcement.

hope this helps,
scott memmer

[stringjunky]

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

Agree with Scott's assessment, and would even go a step further and say, "extremely brittle." My first Fast Turtle pick developed a few slight cracks, and at the time, I didn't understand why. Now I know — it's living in Arizona. The pick still worked fine, so I wrote it off as a cosmetic issue. Then one day, I tried to flex it very carefully and ever so slightly, and the pick immediately broke in half.

So yes, my recommendation is if you have casein picks, treat them like an expensive guitar, and do not ever attempt to flex them, even slightly.

I bet there's an optimal humidity for them...like nails. If nails are too dry they snap easily.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by stringjunky2

I bet there's an optimal humidity for them...like nails. If nails are too dry they snap easily.

Actually, there's a balance in their somewhere. Worse that too dry, though, is too WET. Casein DOES NOT like moisture, at least not excessive moisture. It will tend to scoop out a little more in more humid climates. It's very strange and tempermental stuff.

Too dry, yes, would probably increase brittleness of any plastic, including casein. Interestingly, Red Bear is based in Utah, west of the Wasatch, which is VERY dry. So their idea of an oil probably makes a lot of sense.

scott memmer

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by Proclaimer888

Mostly impressed that anyone has the cunning ability to keep a pick long enough to need a special application. My pick fairy visits often and takes without prejudice.

If you came over for a visit and combed through the carpet, you could probably walk away with $100 worth of guitar picks.

sm

[HHP]

I haven't found it to be quite so delicate. I typically use casein picks in the 3mm to 5mm thickness range and most of my friends are too feeble to flex something like that. I do keep them away from moisture and excessive heat but that isn't too hard to do. The first ones I made up are many years old, still flat and showing no outward signs of wear. Minus the ones I give away, I still have every casein pick I ever bought.

To me, the stuff is almost magical as its original name of Alladinite would suggest. My first experience with casein was poor. Bought some John Pearse picks in 2.5mm and was disappointed in the sound. Put them away and moved on. Years later, when I was experimenting with edge bevels, I pulled them out again and re-shaped the edges. Huge transformation in tone and volume. Luckily, I didn't know what I was doing and I put a much more extreme bevel on than most manufacturers would but the tone , volume , and control were way beyond anything I had ever used before.

I've since added casein from Charmed Life, EML, and even Fender and all seem to outperform any of the conventional plastics and even the new super engineering plastics.

They do cost more, starting in the $8 range and going up, and you may need to work on the edges on many of them, but even the best ones only cost about what a few packs of strings do so they aren't crazy expensive.

This thread needs pictures.

John Pearse Fast Turtle



John Pearse after reworking the edge



Fender Tru-Shells, stock and modified version



Charmed Life Flame



Another view showing the bevels



Two different shapes from EML



Picks are sort of like tires on a high performance car, they are the interface between your skill and your equipment that define the whole playing experience.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by HHP

I haven't found it to be quite so delicate. I typically use casein picks in the 3mm to 5mm thickness range and most of my friends are too feeble to flex something like that. I do keep them away from moisture and excessive heat but that isn't too hard to do. The first ones I made up are many years old, still flat and showing no outward signs of wear. Minus the ones I give away, I still have every casein pick I ever bought.

To me, the stuff is almost magical as its original name of Alladinite would suggest. My first experience with casein was poor. Bought some John Pearse picks in 2.5mm and was disappointed in the sound. Put them away and moved on. Years later, when I was experimenting with edge bevels, I pulled them out again and re-shaped the edges. Huge transformation in tone and volume. Luckily, I didn't know what I was doing and I put a much more extreme bevel on than most manufacturers would but the tone , volume , and control were way beyond anything I had ever used before.

I've since added casein from Charmed Life, EML, and even Fender and all seem to outperform any of the conventional plastics and even the new super engineering plastics.

They do cost more, starting in the $8 range and going up, and you may need to work on the edges on many of them, but even the best ones only cost about what a few packs of strings do so they aren't crazy expensive.

This thread needs pictures.

John Pearse Fast Turtle



John Pearse after reworking the edge



Fender Tru-Shells, stock and modified version



Charmed Life Flame



Another view showing the bevels



Two different shapes from EML



Picks are sort of like tires on a high performance car, they are the interface between your skill and your equipment that define the whole playing experience.

Thanks for the post, Harry. As you state, as casein picks get thicker -- or any other pick material, for that matter -- my experience is that a total of zero of them break under normal playing conditions. So certainly casein picks above 2.0 mm and over would have no issues.

sm