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  #46  
Old 03-13-2022, 07:50 AM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars View Post

I had already pretty much made up my mind that I am going to get the Mac Studio with MI MAX chip. Even though I know there will be some problems( as others have mentioned), it still makes the most sense to me. But even though I have pretty much already made up my mind , I still doesn't hurt to explore exactly what I will be in for.



Have no doubt...I will get a new computer....most likely the Mac Studio with Max chip. In the meantime....ha ha ha ha...I will ask questions. It is my nature. I will try and prepare myself so that I at the very least, know where to get help.

In the end, You can not take the stripes out of this Zebra and make him a Horse. I am a in this example...a Zebra who's stripes are etched into my skin. Questions are my stripes.
Interesting Because the Studio with the M1 Max is indeed the model I would choose for myself at this point, and I do think it will be viable a good 5 years at the very least,,, and likely more like -10 years into the future, dong mostly audio some occasional music video's .(Obviously no one can predict the future) AND the progression in both electronic hardware and software is relentless.

But what people often forget is once you get good reliable a system up and running, it is quite possible to simply stay with that system and only upgrade software based on the compatibility with that system if at all ..
I used my Mid 2010 Mac Pro right up until I bought my 27' iMac (in my sig line) in December of 2020 and even then I could have easily stayed with the 2010 for another 3 to 5 years. In retrospect because the 10th intel chips run so hot requiring the fans to kick I wish I would have waited until now and jump all over the Studio M1 Max unit ..
But be that as it may, and even though there is some low fan noise in my recordings (only noticeable in the silent start and finish of the music) it is not hateful or restrictive (somewhat akin to ye' ol' analog days ) AND I can if I so decide, start to use my new MBP with the M1 Pro chip ,, with which I have yet to even hear the fans, even while working in Final Cut Pro which is always noticeably noisy on my iMac..
Just my opinion from my prospective BUT I think you are on the right track or "Tracks (maybe 100's ) " as it were
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Last edited by KevWind; 03-13-2022 at 07:58 AM.
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  #47  
Old 03-13-2022, 08:45 AM
kurth kurth is offline
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Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
I'm not sure I understand your point either. Were the hackers not really trying before and now they're going to become super-hackers? Hacking isn't anything new. Companies have been dealing with it for a long time. That said, I don't see how that has any bearing on this discussion regarding the level of currently available computer power for the home user vs the requirements of the software we're using.
.....then how did sdelsolray's comment about ilok's pertain to your discussion as well ? But I didn't hear your complaints then? I believe the thread title is pretty general.
....and to add....a cursory look at kat show ilok useless against real pirates.
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  #48  
Old 03-13-2022, 09:54 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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.....then how did sdelsolray's comment about ilok's pertain to your discussion as well ? But I didn't hear your complaints then? I believe the thread title is pretty general.
....and to add....a cursory look at kat show ilok useless against real pirates.
All sdelsolray did was relay an iLok announcement. That was relevant because part of the discussion was about OS and M1 compatibility. That iLok is going to function properly from the start is good information to know. Your comment about Russian hackers was out of left field. It wasn't part of the discussion and had no bearing on the discussion. I'm doubtful any of us make purchases based on what Russian hackers are doing.
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  #49  
Old 03-13-2022, 10:22 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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This might be the most ridiculous review I've ever seen for a product.

At some point she says, "I don't see anything studio about this."
Her complaints about the Mac Studio:
1. It doesn't have a 3.5mm microphone input.
2. She doesn't like that USB-A ports are still included.
3. She thinks the computer should have been able to replace her interface.
4. She doesn't like the 3.5mm headphone jack because she'll need to use a Y-cable to hook her studio monitors up to her computer (not sure why she'd hook them up to her computer rather than her interface).

Apologies in advance if you should smack your forehead too hard while viewing.

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2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
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  #50  
Old 03-13-2022, 10:51 AM
kurth kurth is offline
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Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
All sdelsolray did was relay an iLok announcement. That was relevant because part of the discussion was about OS and M1 compatibility. That iLok is going to function properly from the start is good information to know. Your comment about Russian hackers was out of left field. It wasn't part of the discussion and had no bearing on the discussion. I'm doubtful any of us make purchases based on what Russian hackers are doing.
that might change....sooner rather than later. I hear Apple was particularly vocal on the hill. Probably feeling vulnerable. ilok will probably return to that usb dongle as well.

https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecu...n-cyberattacks
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  #51  
Old 03-13-2022, 12:25 PM
kurth kurth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
This might be the most ridiculous review I've ever seen for a product.

At some point she says, "I don't see anything studio about this."
Her complaints about the Mac Studio:
1. It doesn't have a 3.5mm microphone input.
2. She doesn't like that USB-A ports are still included.
3. She thinks the computer should have been able to replace her interface.
4. She doesn't like the 3.5mm headphone jack because she'll need to use a Y-cable to hook her studio monitors up to her computer (not sure why she'd hook them up to her computer rather than her interface).

Apologies in advance if you should smack your forehead too hard while viewing.


first...it's not a 'review'...it's a 'preview. She doesn't have the device so how can it be a review? Second she's just an average user so isn't really qualified to actually do a professional review. Third, she does make a valid point about the continuing lack of input philosophy that Apple has been engaged in since the G5 days, but has become a critical point or flaw in the last 5 years. Although this device certainly beats those macbook pros with like one thunderbolt port and that was it. Fourth....I have studio monitors hooked up to my compu and my interface, and dual headphones as well. Many reasons to have sets of monitors connected directly to both. She mentions she edits video. You don't use an audio interface usually when you edit video. You want monitors connected to your compu. As well, one hdmi port? Give me a break. Why wasn't a displayport port included? Obviously a typical Apple strategy to push to buy the new display package. The thunderbolt to dp adapter is kinda of expensive. Like as well, I wasn't happy when Apple disappeared firewire, although a thunderbolt to firewire adapter is at least available. Fifth....maybe she told me something I didn't know....that my old intel macbook pro (my last mac) with audio input can take a signal directly from my guitar. Gotta try that one. Never occurred to me. Anyway , since I'm no longer concerned with keeping up with the jones'es cutting edge and rising spec'd video world, as I mentioned earlier....if I ever succumbed to adding another mac to my apple museum, it'd be a mac mini, or an Air, which both run logic just fine. Although, as I've mentioned before, imho windows far outperforms in the arena of audio , if I just had to choose just one. The only reason I might want one is for Interdevice Audio. Can't get that to work well using windows and ipad, and my macbook pro won't run el capitan without crashing. Iv'e got a dual os system installed on two separate hd's, but it's still unreliable. And ipads are more essential than macs for music production these days.

Well, regardless , she's a typical mac user. There's a reason all serious gamers use windows machines. Apple hype. History has shown to never believe their initial published benchmarks. Although the new chip seems to be far better than Apple's flawed migration to Intel, in every respect including migrating software where they totally messed up the ppc to intel transition, they seemed to have come up the learning curve from then. But any long term user has to ask the question....how long will this system last? Maybe for the time being I'll just get a used 4 core i5 mac mini that'll run a newer os. For my track necessities, that's all logic really needs anyway. And re-guitar.
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  #52  
Old 03-13-2022, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
This might be the most ridiculous review I've ever seen for a product.
Apologies in advance if you should smack your forehead too hard while viewing.
. Humm ??????? Seems a little dazed and confused of what Audio is about. I don't know anybody pro or serious amateur that would want to use a computer sound card for music Audio Mic input I suppose for voice over might be OK, but I would not use it for music audio.

She is also confused about the ports on the back of the Studio they are TB 4 not USB C
IMO the array of ports offered is totally mid size "studio" and down... No doubt the big dogs will likely wait for the new Mac Pro

Seems to me what she actually wants is some kind of hybrid "computer & interface" in one box maybe ??????????????

Interestingly enough I use my studio interface and studio HP's when editing video ....Given I have mixed the Audio in PT and that is the audio I use in FCPX, I see no reason to downgrade the audio to the computer sound card ... I also use my interface when streaming Youtube or Sound cloud on my studio system . So I cant think of a reason to try to hook monitors to my computer
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  #53  
Old 03-13-2022, 01:02 PM
AcousticDreams AcousticDreams is offline
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This has actually been a very productive discussion and has helped me come to some realizations.

The Small amount of VI's and Plugs in I already own are already creating some problems computer wise. And I wish to buy more. I feel a strong need to upgrade my computer now before I start my recording process. Transferring in the middle just seems like it could cause some very real headaches.

As all of you know, I ask questions form all sides of the equation. I wish to make the best decision I can with the limited funds I have.

Thanks to Jim1960 and KevWind and others....pointing out the problems that Monterey & MI compatibility with VI's & Plugs ins( and a video review I watched warning of the compatibility issues) = I have now at peace and willing to wait several months before I get my new Mac.

My newest philosophy is that I can start working on recording using my current system. Work Tapes is what i called it back in the day when I used my old reel to reel four track Teac 3340. Worked every thing out first, and then the 24 tract studio time was far less. I will hopefully figure out 90% of what I need to do on my...work tapes. And the little bit of VI problems I have now really won't be that much of an issue.

Just like the way I write songs....I change the music, the lyrics a hundred times before I complete them anyway. As well as I can still experiment with New micing positions, VI instrumentation. This will keep my work flowing for several months(four, five even six months from now). And then hopefully by then many of the compatibility problems will be worked out. It will be a straighter approach to recording the final cut on my future new system.

I do hope this discussion can continue as we learn of issues being worked out and other possibilities. In the meantime, I am.....pretty much....at peace. LoL. Tomorrow that might change...fickle is the artist.
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  #54  
Old 03-13-2022, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kurth View Post
that might change....sooner rather than later. I hear Apple was particularly vocal on the hill. Probably feeling vulnerable. ilok will probably return to that usb dongle as well.

https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecu...n-cyberattacks
Honestly don't really understand exactly what point you are trying to make ??

What "might change sooner than later" ?

Apple was vocal about not wanting to allow iPhone users to download apps not in the App store. Which I am guessing is more about the money than possible Russian hackers. But I don't really know Apples motivation

And speaking of motivations , what exactly do you see as the motivation for Russian hackers to hack into iLok ?? Are you saying they would want to steal my software licenses or something ?

And finally FYI ,,,iLok does not have to "return to a USB dongle" because they never left, and now they have a new one that is USB-C
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KevWind at YouYube
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD

System :
Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1

Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1

Last edited by KevWind; 03-13-2022 at 01:55 PM.
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  #55  
Old 03-13-2022, 02:02 PM
kurth kurth is offline
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
. Humm ??????? Seems a little dazed and confused of what Audio is about. I don't know anybody pro or serious amateur that would want to use a computer sound card for Audio Mic input I suppose for voice over might be OK, but I would not use it for music audio.

She is also confused about the ports on the back of the Studio they are TB 4 not USB C
IMO the array of ports offered is totally mid size "studio" and down... No doubt the big dogs will likely wait for the new Mac Pro



Interestingly enough I use my studio interface and studio HP's when editing video ....Given I have mixed the Audio in PT and that is the audio I use in FCPX, I see no reason to downgrade the audio to the computer sound card ... I also use my interface when streaming Youtube or Sound cloud on my studio system . So I cant think of a reason to try to hook monitors to my computer
Apple's new headphone output does 96kHZ...which should be sufficient for any monitors...or any video audio...or audio in general. And even if , like on older macs when audio in was only cd quality, many midrange guitar interfaces are only cd quality as well, so what's the difference? Only maybe if you're recording an acoustic guitar with a neumann...and then 96kHZ would still be good. Although fcx supports 192kHZ samples....I can't hear any difference between 192 and 96. Can you? And I'm sure that hollywood film systems use great audio interfaces for their editing suites....but 99% of professionally edited video doesn't use 192kHZ. Most editors use 16bit 44.1kHZ. And DaVinci Resolve doesn't even support 192....and it's more 'industry standard' than fcx. And you listen to soundcloud thru your interface. Really?.... guess you just like buying equipment. I have serious doubts there's any reason to stream soundcloud thru an interface. Can you share your reasoning.
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  #56  
Old 03-13-2022, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Honestly don't really understand exactly what point you are trying to make ??

What "might change sooner than later" ?

Apple was vocal about not wanting to allow iPhone users to download apps not in the App store. Which I am guessing is more about the money than possible Russian hackers. But I don't really know Apples motivation

And speaking of motivations , what exactly do you see as the motivation for Russian hackers to hack into iLok ?? Are you saying they would want to steal my software licenses or something ?

And finally FYI ,,,iLok does not have to "return to a USB dongle" because they never left, and now they have a new one that is USB-C
simple....ransomware...state sanctioned. that's why i advised to take workstations offline.
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  #57  
Old 03-13-2022, 02:51 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Originally Posted by kurth View Post
first...it's not a 'review'...it's a 'preview. She doesn't have the device so how can it be a review?
According to the people at Oxford, "preview" means:
Noun
1. an occasion at which you can see a film, a show, etc. before it is shown to the general public
2. a description in a newspaper or a magazine that tells you about a film, a television programme, etc. before it is shown to the public
3. a series of short scenes from a film or television programme, shown in advance to advertise it
4. a chance to see what something will be like before it happens or is shown
Verb
1. to see a film, a television programme, etc. before it is shown to the general public and write an account of it for a newspaper or magazine
2. to give somebody a short account of something that is going to happen, be studied, etc.

Since the Mac Studio had already been shown to the public prior to the making of her video, "preview" would appear to be incorrect.

Also according to Oxford, "review" means:
Noun
1. a report in a newspaper or magazine, or on the internet, television or radio, in which somebody gives their opinion of a book, play, film, product, etc.; the act of writing this kind of report
2. an act of looking again at something you have studied or written, especially in order to prepare for an exam
3. an examination of something, with the intention of changing it if necessary
4. an examination of all the relevant information on a subject or on a series of events
5. a ceremony that involves an official inspection of soldiers, etc. by an important visitor
Verb
1. review something to write a report of a book, play, film, product, etc. in which you give your opinion of it
2. to look again at something you have studied, especially in order to prepare for an exam
3. to check a piece of work to see if there are any mistakes
4. to carefully examine or consider something again, especially so that you can decide if it is necessary to make changes
5. to read or study information about something, especially in order to reach an opinion about it
6. to think about past events, for example to try to understand why they happened
7. to make an official inspection of a group of soldiers, etc. in a military ceremony

Since the features of the Mac Studio were already revealed prior to the making of that video, none of the definitions for "preview" provided by Oxford fit the circumstances.

As for "review," if you look at the definitions, number 4 under noun and numbers 3 and 5 under verb fit very neatly. One could also make an argument that number 3 under noun and number 1 under verb also fit.

Simply put, it's a review because she's discussing information which has been made public, not information that has been limited in its dissemination.
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2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
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1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

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  #58  
Old 03-13-2022, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kurth View Post
Apple's new headphone output does 96kHZ...which should be sufficient for any monitors...or any video audio...or audio in general. And even if , like on older macs when audio in was only cd quality, many midrange guitar interfaces are only cd quality as well, so what's the difference? Only maybe if you're recording an acoustic guitar with a neumann...and then 96kHZ would still be good. Although fcx supports 192kHZ samples....I can't hear any difference between 192 and 96. Can you? And I'm sure that hollywood film systems use great audio interfaces for their editing suites....but 99% of professionally edited video doesn't use 192kHZ. Most editors use 16bit 44.1kHZ. And DaVinci Resolve doesn't even support 192....and it's more 'industry standard' than fcx. And you listen to soundcloud thru your interface. Really?.... guess you just like buying equipment. I have serious doubts there's any reason to stream soundcloud thru an interface. Can you share your reasoning.

Humm where to start ? Lets try to simplify the above

First the Headphone output on the new Mac Studio as far as I can tell is an analog output, (not digital)... So what it actually "does" is output line level analog signal , and there is no "does 96kHZ " or any sample rate (96k or otherwise ) involved in its output..
I am guessing what you actually meant is the sound card that feeds it, can support up to 96k ? Here is a hint,,, if your going to try to call out someone for correct terminology (review -preview ) you might want to try using it first...just a suggestion ....

Second Not only is your notion of "sufficient" totally subjective
But the all the rest of your unrelated examples have nothing to with the quality of the computers A/D or D/A conversion or the quality of its analog ins and outs and preamp .... otherwise known as .....its sound card (like I said ) And the sample rate it supports is also meaningless as to the quality (or not) of it's conversion or analog circuitry

So my "reasoning" is real simple The conversion and analog circuitry on my interface is far far superior to any computer sound card (even this new one) not to mention the quality of it's mic pre's. Because if the Mac Studio did have as good of conversion and analog section as my interface,, the base price would start a $6000... not $2000.. So why wouldn't I listen to Sound Cloud or YouTube thru my interface ?

And heck yes I like buying equipment, if I didn't I would not be interested music or home audio recording ... I would play canasta and eat Bon Bon's YMMV.
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https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD

System :
Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1

Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1

Last edited by KevWind; 03-13-2022 at 04:05 PM.
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  #59  
Old 03-13-2022, 03:09 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Honestly don't really understand exactly what point you are trying to make ??

What "might change sooner than later" ?

Apple was vocal about not wanting to allow iPhone users to download apps not in the App store. Which I am guessing is more about the money than possible Russian hackers. But I don't really know Apples motivation

And speaking of motivations , what exactly do you see as the motivation for Russian hackers to hack into iLok ?? Are you saying they would want to steal my software licenses or something ?

And finally FYI ,,,iLok does not have to "return to a USB dongle" because they never left, and now they have a new one that is USB-C
The point she really fails to recognize is this...
For a lot of years it has felt like Apple has mostly ignored the higher end home studio and small pro studio community (which has a lot of overlap so far as computing needs go). The new Mac Studio computers seem to be aimed, at least in part, at that community.

Here's what I mean... when I bought my iMac it very much felt like a compromise going from a Mac Pro cheese grater. My choices, however, were limited. It was either the iMac or the Mac Pro trash can. Neither was a great choice for me (the trash can certainly got no love in the audio community). A main reason I went with the iMac because the cost of the trash can was going to be prohibitive due to having to add on some expensive peripheral gear, mostly regarding storage. The same was true of the iMac but the cost in the end was easier to justify.

Along comes the Mac Studio and Apple has lowered the cost of main drive storage to the point where the 4Tb option isn't totally unreasonable (the 8Tb option still feels overpriced) and the cost of memory is also reasonable. I never really wanted nor needed the iMac screen at the time I purchased it. I didn't expect Apple to offer me a solid non-iMac choice in the new lineup so I'm thrilled with the Studio Mac option. It feels like Apple finally found a sweet spot for the higher end home studio and small pro studio community.
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2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

YouTube
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  #60  
Old 03-13-2022, 03:15 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
So why wouldn't I listen to Sound Cloud or YouTube thru my interface?
In every studio I've ever been in, all music audio is routed through the interface. I can't think of a good reason to choose to listen primarily through the computer speaker. I want my listening experience to be the best it can be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
And heck yes I like buying equipment, if I didn't I would not be interested music or home audio recording ... I would play canasta and eat Bon Bon's YMMV.
Is he throwing shade on buying recording gear in a subforum called "RECORD"???
__________________
Jim
2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

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  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

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