Digital Multi-track Units vs. Interfaces: Screen size?

[ADK]

Hi all,

After getting fed up with the latency and software issues of computer-based recording a few years ago, I purchased a Tascam dp008-ex. I really like the simplicity of a standalone unit, but this little thing is not very inspiring. In particular, I find the tiny controls and the tiny orange screen annoying. Because of this, I've barely used it.

(Why do they make the screens on these things so tiny?! If I could design an ideal standalone unit, I'd make it similar to a laptop with a big fold-open screen. Wouldn't that be awesome?)

I'm drawn to the colorful and front-tilted screen of the Tascam 24HD . As with the smaller Tascam, the standalone nature of this is really appealing. It's 13x20, about the size of a 23" monitor, with a screen about the size of a credit card. Not huge, but better. 24 tracks is overkill for me, but it seems a really good choice at $499.


Zoom and others offer units that double as computer interfaces. I've been watching some videos on the Boss BR-800. ($450). I dig that it seems easy enough to connect to a computer (thus, accessing a larger screen). I also like that it has vocal, amp, and rhythm modeling included. However, I'm still gun-shy about relying on a connection of any sort. Last thing I want are connectivity issues, downloads, updates, and plug-ins to fart around with. But without connecting it, it's just another standalone with a tiny orange screen.

Any thoughts on either of these units? Thanks.

[lkingston]

I kind of like my iPad controlled Zoom LS-20R. The screen is the size of my iPad Pro: 12.9 inches!

[Rudy4]

ADK, When you use a stand-alone recorder in the interface mode your recorder serves as an input device to a computer DAW of your choice. The tracks are recorded directly to the computer and are no longer recorded to the stand alone multi-tracker's memory.

With that in mind, you're back to square one.

A few of the older VS recorders could have an external auxiliary display attached, as well as a few other brands, but I'm not sure that's still an option.

I have a Zoom R24 and the screen size is adequate to navigate, especially if you use a multi-tracker only to capture audio as I do.

Many of the advanced features require menu surfing, but basic recording is pretty well served by the small display. Other than selecting a new project there's not much need to use the display for tracking, that's all done with arming lights and dedicated buttons, as well as dedicated transport control buttons.

A large TCD color display might seem like a good idea, but in reality it just wouldn't be that useful, as the easiest by far editing is done by porting the tracks to a computer and using a DAW program.

[Tico]

I'm spoiled by my 27" iMac desktop with that high-resolution retina display.

At a quick glance I can make out the finest details, even when I have Logic, Youtube and Word sharing the screen.
This huge lot of real estate is a dream come true, especially for old eyeballs.

I can't imagine going back to a screen that's any smaller.
Even the largest iPads and notebooks look claustrophobic to me.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by ADK

After getting fed up with the latency and software issues of computer-based recording a few years ago

Define "a few years ago". A lot of issues--having to have a gonzo computer, lots of latency, reliability issues--haven't really been much of an issue for DAW software for a number of years. If your last experience was 8-10 years ago, things are much better these days.

I think you will have trouble finding the "best of both worlds". Small all-in-one boxes are, well, small. The display will be limited. If you use DAW, you get a screen as big as you want. As folks have pointed out in other threads, your usage of a DAW can be as simple (or complicated) as you want it to be. You're not required to use lots of plugins.

[Shepsdad]

I feel your pain. I have been using a Zoom R-16 for over a year now, as I tried to get used to using a daw, but found I was spending more time screwing with the daw than I was playing and actually recording. I really like the R-16, and as was pointed out up thread, the screen itself is really just a reference point, and not the actual focus of the unit. Yeah, there’s menu surfing, but it’s laid out pretty simple, far more simple and user friendly than the dp008.

You can literally pull the R-16 out of the box and be up and running in a few minutes. I don’t think I’ve ever used the owners manual, but did watch a few YouTube tutorials.

I started out years ago using a tascam 424 cassette machine, and moved up to their 8 track machine a few years later (it was a 488, maybe). I find the Zoom R-16/R24 to have a very similar workflow, FWIW.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Shepsdad

I feel your pain. I have been using a Zoom R-16 for over a year now, as I tried to get used to using a daw, but found I was spending more time screwing with the daw than I was playing and actually recording. I really like the R-16, and as was pointed out up thread, the screen itself is really just a reference point, and not the actual focus of the unit. Yeah, there’s menu surfing, but it’s laid out pretty simple, far more simple and user friendly than the dp008.

You can literally pull the R-16 out of the box and be up and running in a few minutes. I don’t think I’ve ever used the owners manual, but did watch a few YouTube tutorials.

I started out years ago using a tascam 424 cassette machine, and moved up to their 8 track machine a few years later (it was a 488, maybe). I find the Zoom R-16/R24 to have a very similar workflow, FWIW.

All very true.

When comparing the R16 and R24 one of the reasons I chose the R24 was the display is functional larger and the actual font size is larger and easier to see. Why there's such a difference I don't know, but it's significant.

The other reason I chose the R24 was the ability to provide phantom power for 4 more of the microphone inputs; 6 instead of 2. A drawback of the R series is the need to use higher gain for dynamic mics and the self-noise gets quite audible with gain settings sufficient to produce good signal levels with most dynamics. I use all condenser mics which provide a much hotter input signal and require lower gain, so self-noise of the preamps isn't an issue.

This can be a determining factor even for someone who is using a stereo pair of sdcs on guitar and wants to use a LDC for simultinious vocal recording.

Of course, the totally noiseless R series lets you quickly setup and record where you can obtain the best sound. That might be a larger room or even outside, and dragging a computer and/or 27" monitor wouldn't be an option I'd be interested in.

[DCCougar]

Originally Posted by ADK

Any thoughts on either of these units?

How do they cut and paste?

They're expensive. I got Cubase Elements for 80 bucks and a usb interface for a little over 100, which I think is pretty amazing for a full-service home studio.

[ADK]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

Define "a few years ago". A lot of issues--having to have a gonzo computer, lots of latency, reliability issues--haven't really been much of an issue for DAW software for a number of years. If your last experience was 8-10 years ago, things are much better these days.

I think you will have trouble finding the "best of both worlds". Small all-in-one boxes are, well, small. The display will be limited. If you use DAW, you get a screen as big as you want. As folks have pointed out in other threads, your usage of a DAW can be as simple (or complicated) as you want it to be. You're not required to use lots of plugins.

This was 5 years ago. I did everything I could to keep things simple, using a 2-channel interface, and trying n-track, Cubase, and Ableton to find the best combination of things. It felt like every time I sat down to record, a program would need an update, or the computer would stop playing nice with the interface, or I'd have to spend hours digging through the tutorials to troubleshoot an issue, and so on. I'd get things working, then something else would pop up and cause distractions. Needless to say, I felt more like an IT guy than a hobby musician.

Honestly, I'd prefer a DAW setup. Bigger screen = easier editing and workflow. But I'm a little jaded.

So I got the little Tascam, and while I like the simplicity and ease of use, the interface is just really small, and I've lost interest in using it.

Which leaves me with two options: Try a bigger standalone with bigger controls and bigger screen (a la the Tascam 24), or giving my computer setup another go. Like you say, maybe things are easier now than they were in the past.

Thanks for the input, everyone.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by ADK

Which leaves me with two options: Try a bigger standalone with bigger controls and bigger screen (a la the Tascam 24), or giving my computer setup another go. Like you say, maybe things are easier now than they were in the past.

Some of it has to do with OS improvement. Windows 10 doesn't seem nearly as finicky with driver stuff as old versions. I get the frustration, but pretty much all the audio gear I've gotten in the last few years "just works"--I'm amazed, especially because part of my day job is doing IT work!

[ADK]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

Some of it has to do with OS improvement. Windows 10 doesn't seem nearly as finicky with driver stuff as old versions. I get the frustration, but pretty much all the audio gear I've gotten in the last few years "just works"--I'm amazed, especially because part of my day job is doing IT work!

Lol. That’s good to know about Windows 10. I’ll give my interface another go.

In your experience what would you say is the easiest daw to use for guitar based recording?

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by ADK

Lol. That’s good to know about Windows 10. I’ll give my interface another go.

In your experience what would you say is the easiest daw to use for guitar based recording?

Yeah, if you already have an interface, worth trying again, if it's not too old. I had an ancient Alesis io2 until last year that went kaput, but that was a hardware issue. After I installed the Focusrite software, my 2i2 has worked like a champ. (Famous last words, right?)

I use Reaper for my DAW. IMO not hard to use at all, and no trickier than other DAWs. Once you've configured your interface, it's very easy to just make a track, select the input, and hit record. Plus you can try it free for 60 days, then it's only $60 to buy. There are tons of great tutorials out there for it.

Cakewalk (formerly Sonar) is free as well, so easy to try if you don't care for Reaper.

I think the initial setup is the hardest for this stuff. You still have to take the time to install drivers, install your DAW, and configure the two. But once that's done, you should be able to just leave it set and next time it's ready to go.

I hope things go smoothly now that I've done so much work to convince you they will!

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by ADK

Lol. That’s good to know about Windows 10. I’ll give my interface another go.

In your experience what would you say is the easiest daw to use for guitar based recording?

I use Mac so don't know about widows
But as to your second question the "Bad news" is that is almost impossible to answer with specific(individual) accuracy , because everybody's learning style and experience is different, and as such different DAWs can be more or less intuitive based on that individual learning style and experience.
The "Good news"
All DAWs have the the same basic Audio recording features and capability. BUT they can have different workflows, GUI's, and nomenclature etc. .
For example Reaper is very popular here, on AGF (and even though I have been doing DAW recording since 2003) but for me Reaper was so counterintuitive that I gave up after the 60 day free trial.
Currently I use Pro Tools ( IMO the most intuitive) and also Studio One and Reason

BTW I will say your user name reflects an excellent line of microphones, I have the ADK Z Mod 251 which is an outstanding mic

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by DCCougar

How do they cut and paste?

They're expensive. I got Cubase Elements for 80 bucks and a usb interface for a little over 100, which I think is pretty amazing for a full-service home studio.

I'm aware that your "expensive" is based on already having a computer at hand, but you do have to factor in the cost as part of the package.

If someone was looking at the actual cost of multi-tracking then it would be hard to argue against something like a Zoom R8 and a good set of headphones.

You can even use the built-on stereo mics until you want to start moving higher up the food chain.

It's hard to beat $400 to be able to multi-track under a shade tree in the park. Some of the hand-held recorders can get the price down, but the R8 (or similar multi-trackers) are much easier to use, IMHO, due to their similarity with the old cassette recorder form.

It really depends on what someone is looking for as the final goal, but you don't need anything more for creating tracks and for play-along practice.

[CASD57]

Originally Posted by ADK

Hi all,



After getting fed up with the latency and software issues of computer-based recording a few years ago, I purchased a Tascam dp008-ex. I really like the simplicity of a standalone unit, but this little thing is not very inspiring. In particular, I find the tiny controls and the tiny orange screen annoying. Because of this, I've barely used it.



(Why do they make the screens on these things so tiny?! If I could design an ideal standalone unit, I'd make it similar to a laptop with a big fold-open screen. Wouldn't that be awesome?)



I'm drawn to the colorful and front-tilted screen of the Tascam 24HD . As with the smaller Tascam, the standalone nature of this is really appealing. It's 13x20, about the size of a 23" monitor, with a screen about the size of a credit card. Not huge, but better. 24 tracks is overkill for me, but it seems a really good choice at $499.





Zoom and others offer units that double as computer interfaces. I've been watching some videos on the Boss BR-800. ($450). I dig that it seems easy enough to connect to a computer (thus, accessing a larger screen). I also like that it has vocal, amp, and rhythm modeling included. However, I'm still gun-shy about relying on a connection of any sort. Last thing I want are connectivity issues, downloads, updates, and plug-ins to fart around with. But without connecting it, it's just another standalone with a tiny orange screen.



Any thoughts on either of these units? Thanks.

I have a Zoom R8. And the first time I unplugged it from the computer The computer went into the blue screen of death so I quit using it, it was more involved then I need for vocal practice So I got a Focusrite 2i2 3rd gen and it worked great but didn't have enough, basically, I want a setup that I can use live....unhook it and plug it into powered mains or plug it into my computer for practice.
So I got a mixer with USB interface and effects, works great for both needs and gives me more flexibility and less equipment to haul and hookup