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I talked to my luthier buddy. He said he has installed at least three of the K&K Minis and he still says he prefers the Infinity VT. He makes his own line of acoustics, has his own Youtube channel and does repairs and upgrades for guitars in our area with some people coming from other states ... so I'm inclined to trust in what he says.
As I said I will just so what I have and add some kind of pickup later on if I think I need to do that.
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Martin X1-DE Epiphone AJ500MNS Alvarez AD30 Alvarez AD710 Alvarez RD20S Esteban American Legacy Rogue mandolin |
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So when I post a question like that, I don't look for agreement. I just use all the opinions I get to figure out what to try next. Which seems to be exactly what you're doing. There might not be that "'true' sound person" at your open mics, but there must be someone the PA belongs to. That's the person you'll deal with, regardless. Quote:
And don't rule out passive soundhole pickups. I used one for years and never got a complaint. Quote:
No problem there, but again, it shouldn't be necessary. I never see people bring their EQs or preamps to open mics. Keep it simple. Last edited by Charlie Bernstein; 03-10-2024 at 09:35 AM. |
#20
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It's been decades since I played an open mic -- but I'll bet the KISS principle still applies: don't overcomplicate things looking to perfect your guitar sound.
The people who run open mics expect to be confronted with lots of folks turning up to play one after the other. They want easy, and likely don't have the time to chase after best possible sound. Simplest thing overall I'd say is a soundhole magnetic pickup. They don't tend to cost much, don't require an installation, generally just work plugged in without a separate preamp, and allow one to put the song across soundwise. I suspect the expectations for pickups that puzzle some here may come from simple logistics: at an open mic where the presenter/organizer might also be the sound person and one-man stage crew having a guitar mic constantly used means having to adjust the guitar mic for every performer who may stand (or sit) at different heights, or may have a different sized instrument. That makes adjusting a boom arm an unwelcome additional task.* *Yes, I know the OG "Folk Scare" way to do that: just one mic and stand back a bit, maybe even hold your guitar higher for the big final strums, modulate your playing and voice to balance. These skills are not commonly held by beginning open-mic players. I do attend a lot of poetry readings, open mics and "pros." No one's plugging in a guitar there, but the awkward thing I see so often is folks bending the speaker's microphone boom arm up and down until the clutch (never released, because few poets know to do that) fails -- and the mic swoops down to the floor in the middle of poem. Yes, goosenecks would make this better.
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----------------------------------- Creator of The Parlando Project Guitars: 20th Century Seagull S6-12, S6 Folk, Seagull M6; '00 Guild JF30-12, '01 Martin 00-15, '16 Martin 000-17, '07 Parkwood PW510, Epiphone Biscuit resonator, Merlin Dulcimer, and various electric guitars, basses.... |
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"I know in the morning that it's gonna be good, when I stick out my elbows and they don't bump wood." - Bill Kirchen |
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I did that because, as I said, it was jury rigged and it could fail or fall out at the jam. And I do like to play it at home ... unplugged ... and I noticed it just didn't sound as good as before. So I took the pickup out but the connection is still there and I can always reinstall it if I like with the cord going through the end post.
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Martin X1-DE Epiphone AJ500MNS Alvarez AD30 Alvarez AD710 Alvarez RD20S Esteban American Legacy Rogue mandolin |
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Of course, do not show up with something likely to fail, so no loose wires, no nearly dead batteries, dead strings that can't play in tune or a guitar that cannot be tuned, etc. but it looked (from your list) like you have acoustic-only guitars and it was my thought that you had a good candidate chosen initially for the open mic chores, so thought it might be better to continue down that path. But, vaya con dios... Good luck with whatever you do.
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"I know in the morning that it's gonna be good, when I stick out my elbows and they don't bump wood." - Bill Kirchen |
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No, a K&K plugged into a PA with an average, average is a low bar, will not sound good. You won't have time to do all the EQing a K&K needs, and they might not even have the high impedance switch on. Yes, it will make noise.
If you want cheap, buy a JJB. It will sound as good as a K&K, but it will still need a pre. You can get your pickup dialed in to where it will sound ok into the board. You need a high pass filter and a mid parametric at least. A pre you can buy used is the built like a tank PARA DI. There is a lot to be said for a sound hole magnetic too. Simple and cheap, or can be anyway.
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2007 Martin D 35 Custom 1970 Guild D 35 1965 Epiphone Texan 2011 Santa Cruz D P/W Pono OP 30 D parlor Pono OP12-30 Pono MT uke Goldtone Paul Beard squareneck resophonic Fluke tenor ukulele Boatload of home rolled telecasters "Shut up and play ur guitar" Frank Zappa Last edited by Br1ck; 03-12-2024 at 04:26 PM. |
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Thanks, folks, for all of the replies and the helpful suggestions.
For the moment at least this is on my back burner (along with some old refried beans, LOL) as I bought a used Alvarez PD80SC and I'm getting it tomorrow. It has a pickup in it as well as a cutaway (which I've never owned) and it has an Engleman spruce top (which I've also never owned) so maybe it will be my "open mic" guitar ... or maybe not. Many people suggest I have a preamp. I have that Behringer unit which .. works. Is there something else a step up from it ? Again, I'm not talking a low-cost option because if the Behringer will suffice I don't see the need to add something else.
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Martin X1-DE Epiphone AJ500MNS Alvarez AD30 Alvarez AD710 Alvarez RD20S Esteban American Legacy Rogue mandolin |
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If your guitar has a battery, it has a preamp. No need for an outboard pre, although one can sound better.
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2007 Martin D 35 Custom 1970 Guild D 35 1965 Epiphone Texan 2011 Santa Cruz D P/W Pono OP 30 D parlor Pono OP12-30 Pono MT uke Goldtone Paul Beard squareneck resophonic Fluke tenor ukulele Boatload of home rolled telecasters "Shut up and play ur guitar" Frank Zappa |
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I understand that. I was speaking of my original plan to install a soundhole or similar pickup in one of my non-amplified acoustics.
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Martin X1-DE Epiphone AJ500MNS Alvarez AD30 Alvarez AD710 Alvarez RD20S Esteban American Legacy Rogue mandolin |
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Low-cost options for casual open mics?
My preferred setup is a K&K, installed by local luthier, with a volume knob wired into place in the sound hole. They can eliminate the supplied plug and jack and solder the knob in line, saving weight and knocking noises. This costs about $200 installed here.
This way I can turn down a bit for a loud strumming song, and back up to full volume for fingerpicking, right from the guitar with no sound person help. Maybe open mic hosts don’t like it, but I would add a small preamp if it’s allowed, makes it sound better even without tweaking on stage. It can be belt clipped or on the ground.
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Doerr, Skytop, Henderson, Kinnaird, Edwinson, Ryan, SCGC, Martin, others. https://youtu.be/_l6ipf7laSU Last edited by RussellHawaii; 03-14-2024 at 04:36 PM. |
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As the host of an open mic and regular participant in another, I see all kinds of systems. I’d recommend going with something with an active pickup system, since they’re plug-and-play. It’s much easier for the host, and you will look more professional if you get up, plug in and go. On the other hand, I see a lot of folks spend 5 minutes or more of their time plugging in external boxes, pedalboards, etc. and often the sound is no better and usually worse than an active system, and it can disrupt the flow. A passive pickup without a preamp is marginal at best. Typically needing to be mic’d can cause problems too. Different story if you’re playing a show with your own gear and have ample setup time.
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