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Old 03-12-2021, 04:04 PM
Long Road Home Long Road Home is offline
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Default Advice Please: Godin Kingpin II vs Eastman T184MX-LS

Around three years back, my bandmates encouraged me to buy an electric guitar (to be honest, they didn’t have to encourage me all that much). I bought an Eastman T184MX-LS (Lil Smokey), mainly because I wanted a 1-3/4" nut and the neck matched the profile of my E6OM-LTD, which was very comfortable for me at the time. The LS came with a Seymour Duncan Jazz SH-2 in the neck, and a JB Sh-4 in the bridge instead of the SD 59's that came with the standard T184MX.

Things change… the Eastman neck is now too chunky for me as Dupuytren’s Contracture continues to worsen in my hands.

I'm looking at selling the Eastman T184MX-LS (as well as the E6OM-LTD for the same reasons) and replacing it with a Godin Kingpin II, which has a slightly narrower nut and what appears to be a less chunky neck. I know that I will need to find one to play, once I’m vaccinated, to make sure that it is comfortable.

My question is more about the sound. I'm a rhythm guitar player and singer. We play mostly roots music (blues, country, rockabilly, with some rock stirred in for seasoning). I play with a pick. I use a Tech 21 SansAmp NYC Para Driver DI that gives me good control over EQ and drive/grit/dirt into a PA system.

For those who know both, I’m wondering about the sound of the Kingpin II versus the Eastman. I’ve looked on youtube and it’s hard to find videos of rhythm guitarists playing these.

What might I lose and what might I gain?
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Last edited by Long Road Home; 03-12-2021 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 03-12-2021, 06:31 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Originally Posted by pax238 View Post
...I'm looking at selling the Eastman T184MX-LS...and replacing it with a Godin Kingpin II, which has a slightly narrower nut and what appears to be a less chunky neck...

My question is more about the sound. I'm a rhythm guitar player and singer. We play mostly roots music (blues, country, rockabilly, with some rock stirred in for seasoning). I play with a pick. I use a Tech 21 SansAmp NYC Para Driver DI that gives me good control over EQ and drive/grit/dirt into a PA system...

What might I lose and what might I gain?
I own a Kingpin CW II (the discontinued blonde version), and even speaking as a hardcore Gretsch guy I'm hard-pressed to think of a better instrument in this price range for the type of music you're doing (FYI that's pretty much how I use mine, with some jazz comping thrown in). As I'm sure you're aware it's a classic single-cut/twin P-90 full-hollowbody in the mold of the early-50's Gibson ES-175/Epiphone Zephyr Regent (the same type of guitar used by the A-list players to play those styles when they were new) with the added advantage of exceptionally lightweight construction (mine weighs just a tick over five pounds - virtually identical to the Seagull mini-jumbo acoustic, whose neck dimensions it also shares) which gives it an airy resonance much like a good vintage Gretsch - a marked contrast to the "thud-&-mud" of typical laminated jazzboxes. The all-carved Eastman semis are fine guitars - if not for the 1-3/4" neck I'd probably own a T186 right now - but IME you're gaining a world of hand and shoulder comfort, with no sacrifice in either tone or QC; FWIW my CW II is one of exactly three guitars I've owned over the last six decades that needed no setup whatsoever - and if it's good enough for Tony Bennett's guitarist (I tend to think both he and his boss know a little something about tone) it's good enough for any application I may find short of death metal...

Again speaking from extensive experience, if you have a critical ear the CW II doesn't play well with PA DI or modeling rigs: this is an old-school hollowbody in every sense of the word, and sounds its best when matched with period-style equipment; while you can get away with an analog SS amp for jazz or clean blues/country (I use a Fender Frontman 212R or Randall RB-120 1x15" combo - or a Tech 21 Trademark 10 for jamming with acoustic instruments) it really comes into its own with a low-/mid-powered tube combo, especially if you venture into rock or like a bit of tubey-sweet mojo in your blues excursions. While my go-to is a first-series "blue-light" Bugera V22 (Deluxe Reverb power with channel-switching/low-level capability, for around $400 - enough grunt for a 600-700 seat house), IME a Vox AC15 or vintage-voiced Fender (Blues Junior, '65 Princeton/Deluxe Reverb RI) would also be a good choice: mike up (or step up to a Bugera V55 for a few bucks more) for the big houses or outdoor gigs, go guitar-cable-amp raw for everything else, and IME you'll never look back...

Finally, if you find the Godin's neck still doesn't suit your needs you might consider a Korean-made (avoid the current Chinese stuff) Gretsch Electromatic 5420/5422 hollowbody: slightly less expensive than the CW II (also somewhat heavier, in the 7-pound range) with QC/tone/playability comparable to "big-name" American instruments at 3-4 times the price and honest-to-Chet blacktop Filter'tron PU's, they'll cover all your preferred styles with the added advantage of a slimmer/narrower neck (just slightly thicker than my Brooklyn-original '64 Double Annie) and shorter scale (24.6" versus 24.84"). Be advised, however, that any Gretsch is by nature sui generis - they're not plug-&-play guitars like a Gibson/Fender (or even the Godin) and were never intended to be - but if you want that Atkins/Setzer/Harrison vibe in your playing, nothing else sounds (or looks) like a Gretsch but a Gretsch, and you'll have to spend substantially more for comparable quality...

Good luck...
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Old 03-13-2021, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
I own a Kingpin CW II (the discontinued blonde version), and even speaking as a hardcore Gretsch guy I'm hard-pressed to think of a better instrument in this price range for the type of music you're doing (FYI that's pretty much how I use mine, with some jazz comping thrown in). As I'm sure you're aware it's a classic single-cut/twin P-90 full-hollowbody in the mold of the early-50's Gibson ES-175/Epiphone Zephyr Regent (the same type of guitar used by the A-list players to play those styles when they were new) with the added advantage of exceptionally lightweight construction (mine weighs just a tick over five pounds - virtually identical to the Seagull mini-jumbo acoustic, whose neck dimensions it also shares) which gives it an airy resonance much like a good vintage Gretsch - a marked contrast to the "thud-&-mud" of typical laminated jazzboxes. The all-carved Eastman semis are fine guitars - if not for the 1-3/4" neck I'd probably own a T186 right now - but IME you're gaining a world of hand and shoulder comfort, with no sacrifice in either tone or QC; FWIW my CW II is one of exactly three guitars I've owned over the last six decades that needed no setup whatsoever - and if it's good enough for Tony Bennett's guitarist (I tend to think both he and his boss know a little something about tone) it's good enough for any application I may find short of death metal...

Again speaking from extensive experience, if you have a critical ear the CW II doesn't play well with PA DI or modeling rigs: this is an old-school hollowbody in every sense of the word, and sounds its best when matched with period-style equipment; while you can get away with an analog SS amp for jazz or clean blues/country (I use a Fender Frontman 212R or Randall RB-120 1x15" combo - or a Tech 21 Trademark 10 for jamming with acoustic instruments) it really comes into its own with a low-/mid-powered tube combo, especially if you venture into rock or like a bit of tubey-sweet mojo in your blues excursions. While my go-to is a first-series "blue-light" Bugera V22 (Deluxe Reverb power with channel-switching/low-level capability, for around $400 - enough grunt for a 600-700 seat house), IME a Vox AC15 or vintage-voiced Fender (Blues Junior, '65 Princeton/Deluxe Reverb RI) would also be a good choice: mike up (or step up to a Bugera V55 for a few bucks more) for the big houses or outdoor gigs, go guitar-cable-amp raw for everything else, and IME you'll never look back...

Finally, if you find the Godin's neck still doesn't suit your needs you might consider a Korean-made (avoid the current Chinese stuff) Gretsch Electromatic 5420/5422 hollowbody: slightly less expensive than the CW II (also somewhat heavier, in the 7-pound range) with QC/tone/playability comparable to "big-name" American instruments at 3-4 times the price and honest-to-Chet blacktop Filter'tron PU's, they'll cover all your preferred styles with the added advantage of a slimmer/narrower neck (just slightly thicker than my Brooklyn-original '64 Double Annie) and shorter scale (24.6" versus 24.84"). Be advised, however, that any Gretsch is by nature sui generis - they're not plug-&-play guitars like a Gibson/Fender (or even the Godin) and were never intended to be - but if you want that Atkins/Setzer/Harrison vibe in your playing, nothing else sounds (or looks) like a Gretsch but a Gretsch, and you'll have to spend substantially more for comparable quality...

Good luck...
Thanks so much for the detailed reply, Steve. In the limited time I've spent on the archtop subforum, I have always found your replies to be straight forward, detailed and really helpful (and you're the first forum member to send me to a dictionary... sui generis indeed).

This is very encouraging. I'm two weeks away from feeling comfortable enough to start venturing into stores again, and will try to find one in my area to try out. I will also see if I can get my hands on one of those Gretsch models.
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Old 03-14-2021, 01:36 PM
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Steve has already pointed out most of the facts, and I completely agree - the Kingpin (I own the 2x P90 version myself), with it's very acoustic resonance, clear, but full "old"-sounding pickups, and ES125-vibe would be perfect for the kinds of music you're playing (I play rockabilly, classic country, and the likes myself).

About the neck shape: yes, the Godin has a thin neck (20.5mm at the first fret), kind of middle of the road width - but one thing to consider: the profile is a D, with rather hard, pronounced shoulders - which makes it feel bigger than it is (personally, I prefer chunky necks...)

If that is a problem, yep, Steve is right: start looking at Gretsch hollowbodies, they all have thin toothpick-like necks...

Last edited by RomanS; 03-14-2021 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 03-14-2021, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by RomanS View Post
Steve has already pointed out most of the facts, and I completely agree - the Kingpin (I own the 2x P90 version myself), with it's very acoustic resonance, clear, but full "old"-sounding pickups, and ES125-vibe would be perfect for the kinds of music you're playing (I play rockabilly, classic country, and the likes myself).

About the neck shape: yes, the Godin has a thin neck (20.5mm at the first fret), kind of middle of the road - but one thing to consider: the profile is a D, with rather hard, pronounced shoulders - which makes it feel bigger than it is (personally, I prefer chunky necks...)

If that is a problem, yep, Steve is right: start looking at Gretsch hollowbodies, they all have thin toothpick-like necks...
Thanks for the additional information on the neck profile. Just back from my second shot, so I figure I'll start looking to see if I can hunt one down locally in a couple of weeks to see how it feels.
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Old 03-14-2021, 05:45 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Originally Posted by pax238 View Post
...I figure I'll start looking to see if I can hunt one down locally in a couple of weeks to see how it feels.
In your neck of the woods New Canaan Music, Giuliano's in Norwalk, Blue Bus in Ridgefield, and Audioworks in Milford might be able to help - call around first...
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Old 03-15-2021, 12:14 PM
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In your neck of the woods New Canaan Music, Giuliano's in Norwalk, Blue Bus in Ridgefield, and Audioworks in Milford might be able to help - call around first...
Thanks. There's a small local shop that has a used one in stock, so I'll probably start there.
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Old 03-15-2021, 06:36 PM
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I realize you asked about a specific guitar, but if you like a smaller neck, you may want to consider a Guild X175b Manhattan. I own one and it has a very nice tone and a thinner neck profile than my Eastman.
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Old 03-16-2021, 10:03 AM
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I realize you asked about a specific guitar, but if you like a smaller neck, you may want to consider a Guild X175b Manhattan. I own one and it has a very nice tone and a thinner neck profile than my Eastman.
Thanks for letting me know about this option.
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Old 03-19-2021, 09:44 AM
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You might find this of interest:



https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...pin-ii-cutaway
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Old 03-19-2021, 09:49 AM
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Thanks Steve. Unfortunately, that's the humbucker version (which isn't selling well from what I've seen). The P90 version is still $995.
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Old 03-19-2021, 03:21 PM
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Thats a lot of guitar for $800
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Old 03-19-2021, 04:53 PM
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Thanks Steve. Unfortunately, that's the humbucker version (which isn't selling well from what I've seen). The P90 version is still $995.
Use the money you saved and buy an EQ pedal to get you into P90 territory with the humbuckers. Then you'll have a great guitar and an EQ pedal for all your guitars.

Hot take: I think the Godins are superb guitars! Pretty much all of them! But like many modern P90s, they are too civilized. I have a lollar P-90 that only gives me the sound I want when I use my treble booster. Just getting a guitar with P90s might not give you the sound in your head
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Old 03-19-2021, 08:46 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Thanks Steve. Unfortunately, that's the humbucker version (which isn't selling well from what I've seen). The P90 version is still $995.
Yeah, I noticed that, but since your current squeeze has humbuckers I thought it might be worth suggesting - and as Jeff said, you're not going to beat the price/performance ratio...

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Originally Posted by blue View Post
...I think the Godins are superb guitars! Pretty much all of them! But like many modern P-90s, they are too civilized...Just getting a guitar with P-90s might not give you the sound in your head...
You're 100% right: if you're looking for that face-ripping soapbar tone the CW II is emphatically not your guitar (I've got a goldtop LP Tribute for that); by the same token, if you're after a more-sophisticated, stylistically-versatile tonality the factory Godin P-90's deliver - very close to some of the "underwound" aftermarket PU's, and IME a far better match for the otherwise feedback-prone (and not in the "good" way) ultra-lightweight body construction. Similarly, speaking as an owner I already advised the OP that this might in fact be the case - IME this one sounds best with an old-school guitar-cable-amp setup, just as its Gibson/Epiphone ancestors would have used in the Bop/Rockabilly/early electric-blues era - but as with anything else, beauty (and tone) is in the eyes (and ears) of the beholder...
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Old 03-19-2021, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
You're 100% right: if you're looking for that face-ripping soapbar tone the CW II is emphatically not your guitar (I've got a goldtop LP Tribute for that);
Understood. I was more suggesting that with the shaping ability of an equalizer, along with the inherent signal boost, the OP could get very close to any flavor of P90 with the humbucker Godin.
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