Adi needs to be driven harder or just need medium strings?

[seannx]

I have one Adi/East Indian Rosewood back and sides guitar, an Eastman E20OOSS. The build quality is excellent, it's in no way "overly heavy," and very comparable to my Taylor in fit and finish.
It's very sensitive to the lightest touch, and noticeably louder and even more resonant when strummed with a similar level of effort as my other OM and 00 acoustics. The harder you strum, the louder it gets, with no breakup.
It took a little while to get used to this dynamic, because if I play it similar to my other acoustics, my voice can easily get overwhelmed.

[tomcstokes59]

The E10D-TC and E10SSv are constructed of the same materials - Adirondack spruce and African mahogany (Khaya). The differences respectively
1) long (25.4”) vs short (24.75”) scale length
2) design - square(Martin D-14) vs round shoulder(Gibson jumbo) which probably affects bracing patterns
3) Finish - nitocellulose or TrueTone depending on the year vs hand rubbed antique varnish

I have owned both styles and still own an E20SSv - Adirondack/Rosewood with antique varnish finish. I previously owned both and E10SSv as well as an E10D-TC. In general I find the antique varnish versions to be much more responsive with the caveat any particular guitar may be an exception. I think your issue with the differences may lie in the finish differences. But then I am far from any expert and can only speak to the guitars I own(ed).

[Bluenose]

Originally Posted by goodry

Hmmm. You're right. I thought it was spruce. This one I have... The previous owner put a sound port in... Just cut an oval into the side that faces up ... So it must just be that for that guitar.

Ok lets get one thing straight. There are several subspecies of spruce and Adirondack or Red Spruce is just one of them. I was going to look up the Latin name but I'm lazy and it won't mean much to you anyway.

[cip]

ive got an lg-2 banner with torrified red spruce adi top. i had XL strings on it, 10s.

it did not sound great, had this metallic zing i hated and i switched to martin retro 11s and now it sounds better.

it sounds very boxy like, it can still open up, but its got a torrified top... ?

so i dont know if it will. i hope so,.

[tomcstokes59]

Originally Posted by Bluenose

Ok lets get one thing straight. There are several subspecies of spruce and Adirondack or Red Spruce is just one of them. I was going to look up the Latin name but I'm lazy and it won't mean much to you anyway.

Picea Rubens - Adirondack Spruce if actually from there but Red Spruce is a generic name for it. I not sure if this is still true but Eastman used to buy their Red/Adirondack Spruce from Old Standard Wood out of Missouri.

[musicman1951]

It's not the Adi, it's the way your guitar was build. My 000 has Adi and sings easily with 12s. You can't make the top thinner or change the bracing, but you can certainly try a heavier set of strings.

If that doesn't satisfy you may need to consider trading for a different guitar.

[Mr. Jelly]

I've always found Adi tops to be stiff and needing more pick to drive them. I have never experienced a responsive Adi guitar. And I've had the best Martin had to offer. Just because marketing and people say it's better doesn't mean it's better for me.

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by mcduffnw

It just comes down to the given individual top, and how it is braced and voiced to some degree...

Second this truth. I have a Froggy Bottom H12 - the classic Adirondack over Honduran Mahogany. It is the smoothest, easiest playing guitar I own, with XS 12-53's. I was aware when I bough it that FB specifically cautions against medium string sets.

So I reached out FB to confirm, and this is Michael Millard's response:

Hi David,

The greatest tension is always in the thinner, higher tuned strings, ie, 1st and 2nd strings. Your H-12 should never use anything on the 1st and 2nd larger than an .012 and .016. Those will in all likelihood damage the guitar. I hope this helps.

All the best,

mm

This all schooled me that it is not the soundboard species, but what lies beneath that matters.

David

[rollypolly]

The two adi tipped guitars I’ve owned were pretty responsive with light strings. It’s probably the build.

Oh I did have a Recording King RO-318 with adi top to that sounded a bit tight. Probably will open up with age but I’m too lazy to wait.

[abn556]

Originally Posted by cip

ive got an lg-2 banner with torrified red spruce adi top. i had XL strings on it, 10s.

it did not sound great, had this metallic zing i hated and i switched to martin retro 11s and now it sounds better.

it sounds very boxy like, it can still open up, but its got a torrified top... ?

so i dont know if it will. i hope so,.

Have you tried a set of Monels on the LG-2? I have them on my several mahogany guitars and they sound great.

[Silly Moustache]

Hi,most of my flat tops have sitka tops, but I have two Collings DS1s one is sitka and the other is adi.

The Sitka one is the loudest guitar I own and was for some years my "bluegrass band guitar.

Guitar are made of wood (doh!) and so it is infinteky variable.
High quality builders have skilled people who know how to get the best out of every top they use, which will make every guitar have its own, and hopefully best, character.

High volume producers, make a lot of tops all the same "optimum" thickness , (btw - any maker who says they use "select" spruce top just means they always use the one on the top of the pile!).

Because of the infinite variability of wood two tops from the same tree may sound different better/worse.

A wise member of this august forum once said "every single part of an acoustic guitar affects the sound" It is true - even the profile depth of the neck!

What you seem to have here is a newish model Eastman guitar, which is a different guitar (it's a Jumbo with a varnished top), that , you have played a fair amount.

Apples and oranges.

Give your new guitar the best medicine .... play it! A lot!
Give it a good hard spanking!

Just don't scratch it!

[Bluenose]

Here's my opinion and because I've owned E10SS (Adi/Sapele) for over 10 years it's not totally uninformed.

All guitars need to be played in or they need to 'open up' if you prefer. I can't say exactly when that happened to the E10 but I'm going to say there was an marked improvement after 2 years of ownership and being played almost every day.

I currently own Martins and a Recording King as well and the E10s' tone is equal and louder to anything I own. You can dig in with a flat pick or play subtle fingerstyle passages no problem.

I think whoever hand carved the scalloped braces was a master at the craft and the guitar is in no way over built. I have light strings on it because I prefer light strings for several reasons and I'm not sacrificing tone or volume. IMO.

[cip]

Originally Posted by abn556

Have you tried a set of Monels on the LG-2? I have them on my several mahogany guitars and they sound great.

The retro are monel if I'm not mistaken

[RoyBoy]

Both of my dreads are red spruce topped, a Martin D-18 custom shop and a Bourgeios Vintage D, both 3 years old. They both work best with medium/light gauge strings, the Martin to forestall a neck reset, and the Bourgeois because it's too much of a monster with mediums.

I concur with the following opinions already expressed here:

* Adi does take longer to open up, probably about 2 additional years.
* it likes medium strings and can be driven harder without the tone breaking up. i.e. greater headroom. Bluegrassers tend to love this.
* ultimately, it's the build that regulates this. My Bourgeois responds nicely to a light touch and is capable of beautiful, sensitive renderings. It gets loud and full very quickly when you lean into it. It can be very loud without too much effort.
* the target market for dreadnoughts leans towards bluegrass. Those players really want a guitar that can step up to the plate against a banjo.
~ try mediums and see how the guitar sings with them- and be ready for it's voice to change over the next few years.

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

I've always found Adi tops to be stiff and needing more pick to drive them. I have never experienced a responsive Adi guitar. And I've had the best Martin had to offer. Just because marketing and people say it's better doesn't mean it's better for me.

When you get outside of factory built guitars, adi can absolutely be responsive. A lot of the boutique makers create extremely sensitive adi guitars.

One thing people must understand also is that there's a large variation in quality. It's not like Sitka where makers can still get great pieces on the cheap. With adi, factories that are turning out thousands of instruments are getting what they can get. And, with a factory guitar, they're making them all to the same thickness, the stiffer pieces of wood as well as the more flexible ones. So, they're going to vary. Good adi is very stiff, meaning you can make it thinner, and can be be crazy responsive when you have a luthier optimizing that particular piece of wood. Stiff AND thick means that you really have to beat on it to get it to move though.

I don't mean that to sound elitist. It's just part of the process. I find the same thing happens with koa. Factory guitars aren't always using the best pieces and they aren't getting the best out of it. But, when you get a luthier/small shop working with it, you see why these woods have earned such a reputation.