Is it Time to get Onboard with Metric Measurements?

[leeplaysblues]

Subject for an informative, respectful debate. A bugbear for us outside of the three countries listed is having to try and convert measurements between the world standard of metric and imperial measurements.

Having 2 standards has led to numerous engineering cockups and dangerous outcomes.

Given that every country in the world apart from Liberia pop. 5 Million, Myanmar pop. 54 million and the USA pop. 331 million uses the metric system of measurements, maybe the time has come that by default manufacturers of guitars state measurements in metric?

Or at least provide specs in both?

Having to convert measurements all the time from a mainly obsolete and confusing system of measurement to metric surely has had its day in a globalised world.

Your thoughts

[justonwo]

They tried this in the 70s in the US. Didn’t take. It makes sense, but it’ll never happen. What, by the way, does this have to do with guitars?

[mercy]

I think the relationship to guitars is that we use 3 different types of measurements for guitars. I do agree metric makes sense but I dont think it will ever happen.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by leeplaysblues

...Having to convert measurements all the time from a mainly obsolete and confusing system of measurement to metric surely has had its day in a globalised world...

I'm not confused in the least - I just multiply/divide by the appropriate factor (something any one of my fifth-grade students could do with no problem) - and given current conditions, IMO we could all use some mental stimulation...

As regards anything else, I'll reserve my opinions...

[loco gringo]

There are two types of countries, those that have put a man on the moon and those that use the metric system.

Kidding. Kind of.

[Lee Callicutt]

Once you get used to looking at action measurements like nut width, string spacing, distance between string and fret, string and soundboard, etc., it just makes SO much sense to think in terms of millimeters.

The only real drawback is that you have be conversant with both systems.

[dwasifar]

Originally Posted by justonwo

They tried this in the 70s in the US. Didn’t take. It makes sense, but it’ll never happen. What, by the way, does this have to do with guitars?

Well, string gauges are measured in decimal inches, and scale lengths and nut widths are commonly expressed in inches.

I see the benefit of both systems. Easier to do arithmetic with everything in base 10, but easier to do fractions in the Imperial system, particularly with length measurements. 10 is divisible by 2 and 5, but 12 (inches) is evenly divisible by 2, 3, 4, and 6. Liquid measurement is also largely done in halves and quarters in Imperial - 2 cups to a pint, 2 pints to a quart, 4 quarts to a gallon. And so on.

People tend to visualize things in that kind of increment, not in tenths. Nobody says, hey, give me five tenths of your Snickers bar. And I think that's why Imperial hangs on; it suits the way people conceptualize and estimate measurements.

And the increments are closer to convenient chunks. To measure a room, for example, a foot is a more useful increment than a meter or a centimeter. (I don't know anyone who uses decimeters, do you?) To the closest foot, you can say a room is about 9 by 11 feet and not be too far off, but to the closest meter, that room is 3 by 3 meters. Not as useful.

I'm giving all this defense of Imperial because people tend to think Imperial is indefensible and those who cling to it are just backward. I could also provide lots of reasons to use metric, but everyone already knows those.

[leeplaysblues]

Originally Posted by justonwo

They tried this in the 70s in the US. Didn’t take. It makes sense, but it’ll never happen. What, by the way, does this have to do with guitars?

If you go to any USA based exporter of guitars the specs are in imperial. Also setup information is usually in imperial and sourcing an imperial measurement tool is difficult.

I fully understand that most Americans fully understand metric but imperial is also part of their culture and I have no intention of making a value judgment regarding the merits of both systems.

Discussing differences between cultures, countries and systems that seperate us can lead to interesting discussions... provided there is a respectful, well thought out arguments for both sides, that seems to be happening so far.

Also I'm being a devil's advocate as I was bought up using metric and cannot visualise imperial lengths and measures, and that was frustrating when setting up my recent acquisitions.

What I am saying is that if a guitar company wishes to engage with the export markets them metric measurements should also be provided on all advertising and websites as a matter of coarse.

Also in relation to NASA and the moon....

'(CNN) -- NASA lost a $125 million Mars orbiter because a Lockheed Martin engineering team used English units of measurement while the agency's team used the more conventional metric system for a key spacecraft operation, according to a review finding released Thursday.'

If I was an astronaut for the next moon mission I would be nervous.....(Just Joking)

[Pickcity]

Originally Posted by loco gringo

There are two types of countries, those that have put a man on the moon and those that use the metric system.

Kidding. Kind of.

Lol...Love it.

[The Bard Rocks]

Granted, metric is easy to calculate in BUT, to me, it bears no resemblance to my world. I know how long a foot it as I have two that I keep with me at all times. An inch is one knuckle of the middle fingers, a yard from my nose to the outstretched thumb. I cannot tell a difference of one gram to the next, but I can detect an ounce. I can tell a degree Fahrenheit but one degree Centigrade is too wide a spread.

And don't get me started on metric time....

If I grew up with it, maybe metric would not be so hard... Or maybe it would. Or, with guitars, maybe I could just memorize what one measurement means and metric would be OK. Or maybe it wouldn't work for me. I have never understood the difficulty in using both; you'd keep everyone happy then.

[Brucebubs]

I'm obviously older than leeplaysblues and remember well as a 10 year old when Australia switched to decimal currency in 1966 - how cool was it going from the dowdy old 12 pennies in a shilling/20 shillings in a pound to the cool 100 cents in a dollar - just like the Americans in the movies!

Australia took another 8 years before going fully metric in 1974.

But it came as a real surprise when many years later I learned the USA still used Imperial measurements - the country with decimal currency.

So I've been schooled in both, lived with both but only used metric in my working life.

[Beakybird]

My grandpa tried to convert America to the metric system. He used to say, "He who thinks by the inch and speaks by the yard should be kicked by the foot."

[tadol]

I think a sticky that listed all the common references used to understand a guitars usual measurements would be a very useful thing. A simple spreadsheet with the basics - nut widths, saddle spacings, scale lengths, action measurements, and basic body sizes for many standard bodies - yeah, it would be good to start thinking this way -

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

I'm obviously older than leeplaysblues and remember well as a 10 year old when Australia switched to decimal currency in 1966 - how cool was it going from the dowdy old 12 pennies in a shilling/20 shillings in a pound to the cool 100 cents in a dollar - just like the Americans in the movies!

Australia took another 8 years before going fully metric in 1974.

But it came as a real surprise when many years later I learned the USA still used Imperial measurements - the country with decimal currency.

So I've been schooled in both, lived with both but only used metric in my working life.

Same experiences here! I was 24 when the UK changed from pounds, shillings and pence to decimal currency (although we eschewed ‘dollars‘ and ‘cents’ and kept the pound and ‘new penny’ as our monetary units). It was an easy transition, and we very quickly stopped translating backwards from marked prices in ‘new money’ to what they would have been in ‘old money’!

We changed to Celsius for temperatures in 1961/2, and progressively changed to the metric weights and measures system in the late ‘60s and ‘70s. Although Fahrenheit and imperial had been the standard systems through my first 25 or so years, I quickly got used to working in degrees Celsius, and millimetres, centimetres, metres, and kilometres.

Strangely, though, I continue to use imperial measurements where ‘guitar stuff’ is concerned - I think and measure in thousandths and fractions of an inch for relief and action-heights, and inches/fractions for nut-widths. I guess that’s entirely due to the strong American influence on the guitar-world.

[Birchtop]

Originally Posted by loco gringo

There are two types of countries, those that have put a man on the moon and those that use the metric system.

Kidding. Kind of.