Making my mixes CD level loudness

[anton]

I have been diving into mixing a bit more, and making my recordings sound more professional after the playing and editing is done.

I am using Logic X, and have the Fab Filter EQ, Reverb, and Compressor plugins, as well as TC Electronics Loudness Meter, which basically shows your volume level relative to various benchmarks, like a CD Master.

I was reviewing the end of Doug Young's mid side video, where he does a bit of mixing. From what I can tell the base recording level has a peak of approx -7.8db. He then adds in the Ozone Maximizer plugin, and all of a sudden is at -15db loudness units on the TC Electronics meter, the correct level for a commercial cd.

In comparison I am trying to record a friend, and the base track volume is -24 on the loudness meter. What is the best way to make up that additional 10db to bring it up to -15 loudness units? Is it done through a combination of increasing the fader volume on the track, plus using compression and other things? I tried to get it close to -15, but things were already clipping at -20 or so.

I don't have Ozone and don't particularly want to buy the entire suite just to get Maximizer in a plugin. Does something like that exist standalone?

I know this is kind of a big question, if anyone has any recommended reading I am all for it.

thanks!

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by anton

In comparison I am trying to record a friend, and the base track volume is -24 on the loudness meter. What is the best way to make up that additional 10db to bring it up to -15 loudness units? Is it done through a combination of increasing the fader volume on the track, plus using compression and other things? I tried to get it close to -15, but things were already clipping at -20 or so

I guess you are comparing RMS volume versus peak volume. In that case you could use compression to bring those levels closer together.
As long as the sound remains good that is the easiest way to go. Another way is to use an automated volume envelope (part of most DAWs),
cutting the gain (volume level) of just the loudest note or notes in the track. I do that on occasion. More work but I prefer that method for
the music I play.

[anton]

I think I may have just realized a dumb mistake on my part, my TC Loudness Meter was inserted before the compressor on the master channel. When I make it the last plugin in the chain things look more inline. Raising the levels on the faders and adding some compression brings the overall level of the track to -15 loudness units.

[Doug Young]

My video may be a little misleading about what is going on as far as levels. I wouldn't use compression just to get to a target level, as Rick says, compression can narrow the gap between peaks and the average level (which may or may not sound right - so the important thing with compression is how much you need, if any). When using compression, keep in mind that compression actually lowers the overall volume - but then there's usually makeup gain that raises it. Compression by itself doesn't make things louder - it "compresses" the dynamic range, which allows you to turn up the overall level (thereby getting louder). Whether or not you want to reduce the dynamic range is sort of a separate question from the volume levels.

The maximizer in Ozone (as well as other maximizers out there), have a different interface that sort of sets the limiting level and raises the gain at the same time (at least that's how I interpret what they're doing). With Ozone, you can see how much compression is happening with its meters, and I generally go for almost no visible effect - it's ok to see a little flash now and then on a peak, but I don't want to to be constantly compressing. So in that sense, I guess I'm mostly using the maximizer to tweak the output level. It just works out, at least on most of my tracks, that if you set the target of -15db loudness units on Ozone and then lower the maximizer threshold until you hit that, you see just occasional peak limiting kick in and everything will work well. I try to be careful and listen - if I can hear compression, I back off. But basically, Ozone lets me turn the track up until I hit the target level, taking care of an occasional peak that might otherwise be an "over".

But just to hit that level, you can just raise the volume on the sliders. The challenge without using any compression is how to hit the -15db perceived loudness without having any peaks clip. For my stuff, and I'd think yours, that's not a big problem. Some styles that have more percussive peaks might be more of a challenge, and it's possible to get a track that sounds quiet, but has spikey peaks at 0db. A loud squeak will do that, too! So that's where a limiter, either an automatic plugin, or a manual volume automation, as Rick mentions, can be handy.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by anton

I have been diving into mixing a bit more...

You're talking about two different processes, mixing and mastering. Making it as basic as I can to what you're doing, mixing is the process where you take your multiple track recording and massage/manipulate/whatever those tracks to produce a stereo track. Mastering is taking the stereo track you've produced, putting any final polish on as needed, and getting the loudness to a desired level.

The Maximizer plugin is a limiter plugin and there are plenty of options out there.

FabFilter Pro-L2
Waves L2 Ultramaximizer
Sonnox Oxford Limiter
brainworx bx_limiter
brainworx bx_XL V2

That's just a handful of what's available out there. Some will do more, some will do less. When you're first starting out, limiters can be tricky business. In the desire to dial in a particular loudness level, it's easy to start hitting the track too hard and you wind up with it sounding like someone threw a blanket over the speakers.

My advice would be to avoid conflating mixing and mastering by trying to do both in one session. They're two different events in the life of a recording and each requires a slightly different skill-set. There are plenty of tutorials out there. Watch as many as you can and get a sense of the two difference processes.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by jim1960

My advice would be to avoid conflating mixing and mastering by trying to do both in one session. They're two different events in the life of a recording and each requires a slightly different skill-set. There are plenty of tutorials out there. Watch as many as you can and get a sense of the two difference processes.

Good suggestion, tho with solo guitar like Anton's doing, there isn't all that much "mixing" to do. Maybe add some reverb. The rest is a pretty solid overlap with mastering, so it can be hard to differentiate the 2, especially if you're doing a self-release process for posting here or something, and not sending it off to a mastering engineer separately.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Good suggestion, tho with solo guitar like Anton's doing, there isn't all that much "mixing" to do. Maybe add some reverb. The rest is a pretty solid overlap with mastering, so it can be hard to differentiate the 2, especially if you're doing a self-release process for posting here or something, and not sending it off to a mastering engineer separately.

That's true but should the day come when he wants to expand his palette a bit, he won't have to adjust his workflow if he's already treating mixing and mastering as different stages. Plus, almost every tutorital he'll see online will be approaching it as a two-stage process. I think he'll be less confused and less likely to make mistakes by treating it that way.

[MikeBmusic]

"Get it right in the mix", then the mastering is a breeze. There should never be any clipping happening in the tracks, if there is, its too loud, and turn all the tracks down. Use a compressor on individual tracks only as necessary, use volume automation more.
I put a limiter on the stereo mix, bringing the loudest peaks to -0.3dBFS with the compressor only kicking in on those loud peaks. Then I put an additional compressor on it, again barely 'touching' the peaks, to get the peak level at -0.1dBFS.

[KevWind]

As has been mentioned but is worth repeating
Compression and Limiting are two different processes
Both however are ill served if overdone.

For simply raising the volume of basically finished mix (If it is not where I want it from mixing). I prefer a look ahead brick wall limiter. There are several true look ahead plugins. I know the Massey 2007 is but (Mac OS only) and Nugen makes one. I don't know about the others.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by KevWind

For simply raising the volume of basically finished mix (If it is not where I want it from mixing). I prefer a look ahead brick wall limiter. There are several true look ahead plugins. I know the Massey 2007 is but (Mac OS only) and Nugen makes one. I don't know about the others.

I'm pretty sure the Massey isn't a look-ahead, but it works and it's simple and it sounds good. Cheap, too. To my ear it seems to push up the stereo center just a tad, so if I use it I have it on the mixbus from the getgo so I can hear what it's doing and adjust accordingly.

For acoustic and other "pretty" music I usually use the FabFilter. It's a true look-ahead, and you can dial in how far ahead it looks. I often use two instances daisy-chained, with each instance doing a little bit.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

I'm pretty sure the Massey isn't a look-ahead, but it works and it's simple and it sounds good. Cheap, too. To my ear it seems to push up the stereo center just a tad, so if I use it I have it on the mixbus from the getgo so I can hear what it's doing and adjust accordingly.

For acoustic and other "pretty" music I usually use the FabFilter. It's a true look-ahead, and you can dial in how far ahead it looks. I often use two instances daisy-chained, with each instance doing a little bit.

The fabfilter sound great

According to the Massey web site it is a look ahead but I see no adjustment for time of look ahead

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by KevWind

According to the Massey web site it is a look ahead but I see no adjustment for time of look ahead...

I use it in on the mix bus in live-broadcast situations and there's no noticeable latency. Not enough to bother the performers, in any case. But maybe it can look-ahead in a playback situation where DAW delay compensation is working. Hadn't really thought about it before.

[Bob Womack]

My favorite look-ahead limiter is UAD's Precision Limiter.



If you've got the card it isn't too expensive and it is a fine, relatively transparent look-ahead limiter.

Bob

[jim1960]

I used Avid's Maxim for many many years. It wasn't really doing it for me on a recent project and I gave Ozone 8's Maximizer a go. It was eye opening and it made me wonder about other options so I recently picked up Brainworx bx_XL V2 and FabFilter Pro-L 2 when they were on a good sale. I haven't really had a chance to dig deep into either so I'll hold off on any opinion of them, but that Maximizer is really nice.

[Glennwillow]

Regarding the cost of Ozone, Ozone Elements is not terribly expensive and works very well as a mastering system. $129.

- Glenn