Question about Size 0 and Parlor Guitars?

[SGretsch001]

I'm curious what is the difference in size between a traditional 0 size guitar and a traditional Parlor Size guitar in terms of lower bought and scale length and things. Also I was looking on the Santa Cruz web site and I saw their style 1 and it seems similar to a Parlor but they also have the PJ model which is a 12 fret parlor? Anybody know what the difference is there?

Thanks for your help in advanced.

[Larry Pattis]

There are no set definitions when referring to the words "parlor guitar"...it can mean a variety of sizes and with a variety of scale lengths, depending on the builder...there is no "traditional size" for a parlor guitar in today's guitar world.

An 0 size generally "should" be in the 13-13.5" range for the lower bout, but can be 12 or 14 frets to the body (usually it's 12)...but also with no set scale length.

Larrivée, Collings and Santa Cruz are now all producing guitars with scale length of 24" (24.1" for the Collings Baby), but with varying body sizes.

Goodall (and now Taylor) has a "parlor" that is 00 sized, and with a 25 (24-7/8" for Taylor) scale.

The offshoot of this discussion is that you have to acquire & compare dimensions rather than just going by the names.

[Fliss]

It can be confusing, but as Larry says, there is no single definition of the term parlor (or as I say "parlour" ) guitars. Size 0 is a Martin body size, so will be defined by the dimensions they state for that body size. But that is, I think, generally accepted as a parlour size.

Fliss

[JoeCharter]

The Martin 0 typically measures 13-1/2" at the lower bout.

As others have stated, there is no standard size for parlor guitars. Martin's Model 1 is 12-3/4" at the lower bout -- while the smallest Terz is Model 5, which measures 11-1/4 at the lower bout.

[SGretsch001]

Thanks for the info. I didn't realize that Parlor meant something different to all brands but I guess it makes sense.

[Howard Klepper]

I'd say a "parlor" is always 12-fret. To some it implies a 19th century body shape that appears elongated and relatively bigger in the waist than a modern guitar. And IMO smaller than a size 0.

[SGretsch001]

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

I'd say a "parlor" is always 12-fret. To some it implies a 19th century body shape that appears elongated and relatively bigger in the waist than a modern guitar. And IMO smaller than a size 0.

Thank You for the Info Howard.

[Ed422]

I think "parlor guitar" was a descriptor given to various small guitars which were made in the late 1800's/early 1900's and *not* a specific model. I think Martin 0, 1, 2, and 3 sizes were right in there. There were others from other makers also. They were small-ish guitars often played by the lady of the house and (duh) in the parlor (what might be called a living room or sitting room in todays terms). They were small because they were played solo and they only had to make enough sound for a small room. Martin 5's were a different beast... A Terz, not even tuned the same as a standard guitar.

The guitars dubbed "parlor" these days are an attempt to recreate those or in some cases to capitalize on a type of guitar and or the nostalgia. I think very few fit the traditional description. I agree with the idea of 12 fret and smaller than an 0... but any builder can call their creations whatever they want.

Ed

[maverick1972]

I have a parlor that's close to a hundred years old with a stauffer style headstock. The body is the size of a dreadnought but the neck is only 1.5" wide. I can't even play it, it's too narrow for me but I've seen a few ladies play it.

[SuperB23]

The Santa Cruz PJ is about 12.5 inches wide in the lower bought and has a 24" scale length. It sounds twice as big as it is and its a lot of fun to play!!

[JLH]

I recently bought a vintage Martin 0-21, and when I tell people about it, some say, "Right, a parlor guitar." But I don't think that's correct. One definition I've seen of "parlor guitar" is something smaller than a concert guitar, which makes sense. Martin has referred to their single-0 as "concert" size, double-0 as "grand concert," and triple-0 as "auditorium." So I think of a parlor guitar as equivalent to a Martin size 1, 2, 2 1/2, etc., or possibly a pre-Torres classical guitar, like a Lacote or Panormo, which in the 19th century would most likely have been played in a salon rather than a large hall.

[Tycho]

I've actually seen OMs described as parlor guitars, which seems to be stretching things a bit too far.

[MojoFelix]

I have a Recording King 12-fret single 0, which has a 13.5 inch lower bout, same as Martin single 0. I also have a 12-fret Art & Lutherie Ami which has a 13 inch lower bout = parlor guitar = smaller than a single 0.

[Mr. Jelly]

My understanding is that there is a size of guitar that is considered "Parlor" But, there is no reason to go there because as you have seen by the other responses that the definition no longer applies. I've seen this coming over the years. Small guitars are called parlor guitars now where as they used to be really small to be a parlor guitar. Smaller than O guitars. Such is the modern world. History gets lost.

[AZLiberty]

Parlor at this point is a "Marketing Term".

It used to be a colloquial term to describe older guitars that were smaller than size 0, (like size 2). I say colloquial because it was never used by any of the actual guitar manufacturers.

Martin's nomenclature was as follows:
00 - Grand Concert
0 - Concert
1 - Standard
2 - Ladies
2 1/2 - Child
5 - Junior

IMHO, It really got going as a marketing term back in 1999 when Matt Larrivee built some 0 size instruments using wood blanks that were too small for 00 or OM bodies, and called them the Larrivee Parlor. These were Martin 0 size guitars, and Larrivee's internal paperwork designated them O-01. Mine measures 13.25" across the lower bout.

Since then (last 20 years) it has been used as a marketing term by a host of manufactures.

Breedlove has an 0 size parlor, but used to have a 00 they called a Parlor
Rainsong makes two versions of an 0 size parlor (12 fret and 14 fret)
Alvarez's "parlor" is a 00

Pono (back when they made guitars) actually made smaller Parlors, they certainly made Size 1 and I think size 2 were available.
Santa Cruz has the PJ, which they call a "Parlor Style" guitar, which is nominally a Martin Size 1.

Larrivee and Rainsong (0 size) Parlor Guitars.
Actual model numbers O-01 and CH-PA