#16
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Ibanez Artwood AC900 Eng/EIR Yamaha LL16 Eng/EIR Webber OM Eng/EIR ♫ Transcriptions (Yes, my PM Inbox is always full. For now, please send me an email at [my agf username]@gmail.com ) |
#17
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The original poster asked about Bb2, not A2, Asus, or Aadd9, or any of the at least 3 inversions available for each. |
#18
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Which "sound" are you looking for? Bbadd9 or Bbsus2? As Bryan T has shown, Bb2 may mean either.
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Ibanez Artwood AC900 Eng/EIR Yamaha LL16 Eng/EIR Webber OM Eng/EIR ♫ Transcriptions (Yes, my PM Inbox is always full. For now, please send me an email at [my agf username]@gmail.com ) |
#19
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Erm, isn't "A2", if this is bona fide musical term, the same as the more widely used "A9"?
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#20
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No, technically the intervals would be an octave apart (between 9 & 2). A true ''2'' chord with the root in the bass would have some challenging fingering options in standard tuning...because it would include the root and the note one step above it then the third and fifth...much easier to play clusters like these on keyboards than guitars... And most chord tools don't list the ''2'' muchless the ''sus2'' (out of 4 solid chord programs I own, only one lists the sus2 and none list a straight 2 chord in maj, or min, seventh, or dim configurations) |
#21
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That's interesting. I just assumed the same principle for 7th chords, where the 7th can appear at different positions in the chord, from the bass strings up to the trebles. would hold for 9ths and 13ths too. |
#22
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A2 definitely isn't an A9, at least not on any charts I've seen. That would be a little too James Brown for a praise band.
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#23
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There is a lot of variety in Praise Bands and with horns a ''2'' chord could make a nice note cluster with two saxes and a trumpet or trombone... |
#24
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A2 vs A add 9 vs A9 vs...
OK, I can't stand it...I don't post very often here, but this discussion is too interesting not to throw my 2 cents into.
I think the number of posts and differing interpretations supports Brian T's assertion that the "2" designation (Bb2 or A2 or whatever) is ambiguous. Here's my take: a suspended chord implies that the composer has chosen not to expose the major or minor tonality of the chord. This means that the 3rd scale degree (in the case of Bb, "D", in the case of A, "C#) will not be played. Ironically, this adds a certain "ambiguity" to the chord. An add 9 includes both the 2nd and 3rd scale degrees to the chord. As Larry mentioned, technically the 2nd degree should be voiced abovethe third for the chord to officially be an add 9, but modern ears have become accustomed to hearing it clustered right in between the tonic and the third, and if you have a bass player it technically is an octave above the fundamental 3rd. The 9th means, at least to us "old schoolers", that we are playing a dominant 7th chord with the second scale degree inserted in the octave above the (flatted) seventh, hence the James Brown/ horn shout inferences. As far as practical application, this rule of thumb seems to work for me: If the chord is being substituted for a minor chord, always leave the third out, if it is being substituted for a major chord, it doesn't really matter, exception: if you are doing a "voice leading" progression, it should mirror whatever its context implies. Examples: I'm going to use two variants of a very common modern progression that I've seen notated with the "2" designation. I probably know between 25 and 50 worship songs alone that use this formula, and at least that many other modern songs that employ it. Progression: C G A2 F - Don't play the third. This is a variant (in different keys) used recently. Progression: G D(sus4) Em C2 - this is another more common variant on the same progression in another key. Most players finger this 3-2-0-0-3-3, x-x-0-2-3-2 or (3), 0-2-2-0-3-3 (technically an Em7), x-3-2-0-3-3. In this case, the C being played is actually a C add 9. The fingering for C sus 2 would be x-3-0-0-3-3. However, if you play this progression both ways and listen carefully, you will find that when you play the sus 2, there seems to be something missing (at least to my ear - your results may vary). This is because the "E" which is the major third in the C chord has a voice leading that implies some finality and a "hankering" to return to the D which is in the G chord. Try it. The bottom line for me is the rule is the same for reading it as applies to any other reading --- context, context, context. Matt
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Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity (Harlon's razor) Last edited by vac4873; 06-07-2009 at 06:51 AM. Reason: corrected Em7 fingering |
#25
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Can I post a simple explanation that I believe is correct.
Cadd9 is CEGD contains the Maj. 3rd and the ninth. C2 the 2nd replaces the 3rd CDG don't know why the C2 isn't called Sus2 unless maybe Sus2 implies resolution of the 2 to the major 3rd in the next chord CSus2 resolves to C Maj. Just a guess on that one. C9 of course implies that there is a dominant 7th also CEG Bb D btw I think I'm saying the same thing as vac4873 context, context ... |
#26
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Lets see,.....seems the "2" in a "C" would be a "D", no? and the "9" would imply a 7th or A# HOWEVER,...implied and played are not necessarily the same. Context, as mentioned is EVERYTHING. So, C7 add 9 tells us we NEED the 7th..C9 says "maybe" and C2 could substitute for C9 in the proper context..like Amin and C or D and Bmin 7th at times and with certain fingerings.. It takes very few notes to "imply" a harmonizing chord..a root and its additives (2,4,7,dim,aug, etc) represented will often do the trick..adding more information MAY even be hazardous...or necessary....context, again. FWIW, Robben Ford does an excellent master class of just that... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGhiRie4V_k enjoy!
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Barrett |
#27
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Oh well I tried.
Plain and simple, a 2 chord contains no 3rd, be it major or minor. |
#28
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As I mentioned earlier in the thread, that is not always true. Some folks will see C2 and play Cadd9, which has a third. Some will see D2 and play Dsus2, which omits the third. Same notation, different interpretation.
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#29
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correct if they see a D2 and play a Dsus2 it's the same chord called by a different name. |
#30
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Barrett |