Small Amp vs Line Array

[JohnZ]

Originally Posted by BoB/335

I'm in the same boat. Got to play at an Open Mic last night and the shoulder held up pretty good. It will be getting closer to a decision for me soon myself.
I will most likely go for a SoloAmp or a Compact (after trying out both when the time comes) I was impressed with the sound of the Compact on the recent shoot-out on this forum by Kramster so that will get some consideration. The BagAmp is out of the running for "me" for several reasons (one of which Jack Campbell has never gotten back to me on several attempts) So I will go with one of the 2 that has a running track record of Customer Service.
I like the looks of the SoloAmp but am very concerned about the possibility of it being too loud close up as compared to the Compact. The real test will be when I finally get out to audition.
Of course I am also concerned for the bigger/louder establishments. If that becomes a problem I will most likely opt for a K8 or K10 to accompany the other unit. A few guys here have had success with a combo like that.

.

Last Sunday I took both the SoloAmp and the Bose L1 for an outdoor western themed cocktail reception. I used a wireless AKG headset, a Guild DV-52/Fishman, and an American Deluxe Strat, with some backing tracks and break music through an iPod....all into the SoloAmp with post mix xlr line to the Bose. I was able to walk the site while playing plus stay seated by both units running the volume up and down on each for real time comparison. This allowed me to check dispersion, throw, and proximity volume. Though this setup sounds a bit elaborate it actually sets up in the same or slightly less time than just the Bose with the control unit, and the effects unit, cords, and power supply.

One thing that suprised me was that the L1 had a lot less mic headroom with feedback. In part this is due to not using the Bose fireware eq settings and running it at '00' through channel one, and using the anti-feedback control on the SoloAmp. Actually not using it and leaving it flat so I could be fair to both systems. Also, the high feedback was about the same as it is when I have the proper firmware settings. You really need to be 8 to 10 feet in front of the Bose for it to work properly, and that's something you can't often do. With the Fishman it doesn't matter as much.

On a break I was able to compare them more and using about 40 feet as the constant where both were at the same volume, I came up with few surprises in that the SoloAmp needs to be a little louder to reach that 40' constant so it's a bit louder if you're close. At 100' the Bose is more audible than the SoloAmp and the clarity is stunning...but the path of dispersion is narrower than Bose claims...at least for a 'sweet spot'. Dispersion overall is slightly better with the SoloAmp. The SoloAmp is brighter and could get brittle with some pickups but tone controls, anti-feedback, and a tweeter roll off can keep any of that in check.

As with everything Bose makes, there's a 'Bosey' sound, so shootouts are often defined by your likes of dislikes of it. I've had my L1 for five years now and still like it a lot, but its limited compatibility with other gear and lack of on board effects eventually made me look for something smaller and more effecient and the SoloAmp fills the bill for me.

[MikeTX]

Hi PowerPopper... "My two Solo Amps linked together ..."

I love my SoloAmp. Can you describe what it's like using TWO please?

Do you ALWAYS use both? Just you - vocal and guitar?

Thanks! Mike

[knuckle]

I have a question. Bag amp website is very weak. They mention monitors, mixers but have virtually no info whatsoever. Why advertise products when you have no information available on them whatsoever. Makes no sense.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by knuckle

I have a question. Bag amp website is very weak. They mention monitors, mixers but have virtually no info whatsoever. Why advertise products when you have no information available on them whatsoever. Makes no sense.

You've quoted my post (which refers to the BagAmp's use), but only seem interested in complaining about the website?

Your chief complaint seems to be about products that are not yet shipping.

Let me guess: you own a SoloAmp?



P.S. In regards to your "question"; I'm reasonably sure that information will be made available when the products are available for shipping...and this kind of pre-shipping announcement for new products is not at all unusual, in my years of experience.

[FingerPlucked]

Not fair, Larry. Here's a copy of Knuckle's second to last post:

I'm looking to start playing / singing with Mic / Guitar. So here's my contribution to the 50000 redundant threads. However the threads I've read are geared towards all you folk that have pickups in your instruments. I do not.

So, I don't have pickups in my guitars, which are resonator guitars. I don't play out, but want to and I want to start practicing singing through a mic and mic'ng the guitar.

I'm considering a bose system or an RA-400 but that's a few months off and want to start now. I have around $500 and I realize even these options wont afford me the mic's I'll need and cables and all of that. But here's my idea.

Knuckle doesn't own a SoloAmp or any other amp. But he wants to. And he thinks he will one of these days. Maybe. But just because he has no experience doesn't mean that he shouldn't be able to jump in here with an opinion. Everyone else has.


Personally, I'm waiting for word on the subwoofer. I didn't plan to buy one. Then I did. Then I didn't. Then I did. Now I do. I think. If I could just find someone to give my money to . . . .

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by FingerPlucked

Not fair, Larry. Here's a copy of Knuckle's second to last post:

I'm looking to start playing / singing with Mic / Guitar. So here's my contribution to the 50000 redundant threads. However the threads I've read are geared towards all you folk that have pickups in your instruments. I do not.

So, I don't have pickups in my guitars, which are resonator guitars. I don't play out, but want to and I want to start practicing singing through a mic and mic'ng the guitar.

I'm considering a bose system or an RA-400 but that's a few months off and want to start now. I have around $500 and I realize even these options wont afford me the mic's I'll need and cables and all of that. But here's my idea.

Knuckle doesn't own a SoloAmp or any other amp. But he wants to. And he thinks he will one of these days. Maybe. But just because he has no experience doesn't mean that he shouldn't be able to jump in here with an opinion. Everyone else has.

Okay, I apologize.

However, "5000 redundant threads" (which I did not see...{what page of this thread is that on?}...due to the 10 trillion posts on this topic) might be a bit of overstatement, and my post (which he quoted) has nothing to do with his post.

I noted his opinion (which was a question, sort of...more of an accusation)...which I believe I answered.

You're correct in that we're all allowed to form/have/state our own opinions.

I certainly have formed mine about him...

Originally Posted by FingerPlucked

Personally, I'm waiting for word on the subwoofer. I didn't plan to buy one. Then I did. Then I didn't. Then I did. Now I do. I think. If I could just find someone to give my money to . . . .

I guess I'm completely undecided on this topic, with no plans either way...because I haven't heard one yet. I'm pretty sure we'll both be able to make up our minds once we've heard the Sub in-use with the BagAmp.

[FingerPlucked]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

I guess I'm completely undecided on this topic, with no plans either way...because I haven't heard one yet. I'm pretty sure we'll both be able to make up our minds once we've heard the Sub in-use with the BagAmp.

Yup. Specs won't do it. Jack Campbell suggesting that the sub won't appeal to guitarist/singers won't do it, and it wouldn't have been much better if he had said that people like me should get a sub. I need to hear it myself and see if it delivers some of what I've been craving.

[powerpopper]

tdrake, do not be fooled that the MAP is what Solo Amps go for. I got both of mine for far less.

[tdrake]

Originally Posted by powerpopper

tdrake, do not be fooled that the MAP is what Solo Amps go for. I got both of mine for far less.

Yeah, ferg wrote that as well, last night, and that is something I had *not* considered and it *does* factor in to my choice, so thanks!

td

[knuckle]

Yeah sorry for the quote my bad. Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I own nothing right now except guitars (non pickup) resos and I'm trying to figure out the best route to go. I want to be able to do ef, reverb for vocals, and slight echo / reverb, chorus or any combo of above for guitar and I'm a complete noob with this stuff.

I've read through this entire thread and I still don't know which end is up. But it seems to me that

Soloamp / bag amp = small crowds, indoors

Pa - mixer - small + large crowds + outdoor capability but would need monitoring?

I don't know about monitors and all of that but it seems to me that if I'm going to do outdoor stuff, which I am doing this Summer I'm going to want a PA system.

What I'm curious about (excuse my ignorance) is why you need a monitor? Is it because the speakers are sometimes or usually placed in front of you because of feedback that you can't hear yourself?

Also, what do you guys think about Berhinger stuff? Junk?

[knuckle]

Also what I meant by 5000 redundant threads was due to the fact that a lot of folk seem perturbed by the fact that there are endless amp threads.

However I put up one more geared towards my question, which was the best setup for resonator guitars with no pickups in them. So hope that clarifies what I was after. I'm dumbfounded by the amount of responses in my thread as well



Also, sorry to bash badamp, I don't really know about their products and did not realize that the other products, save for the bag amp itself are not selling as of yet.

[FingerPlucked]

Knuckle, I think a good first step is to read a lot, and to ask others about their experiences. It appears that you've been doing that. Secondly, it would be a good idea to get out and see others & to make note of what they're using. If you get a chance, talk to them while they're on break or after they finish for the night.

Your particular situation is going to be a little tricky since you've already decided that you want to mic your guitars. That can be hard to do without running into feedback problems, and your issues are more likely to change as you move from venue to venue. Some people do it though, so it's possible.

I'd suggest you not worry about covering large crowds at this point. It's one of the things I think about, but it's never really been much of an issue. My own personal experience tells me that I'm much more likely to be forced to set up in cramped quarters than I am in a big, sprawling concert-type setting.

When you're starting out, you almost have to begin with choosing the wrong equipment. That's not as bad as it sounds, though. Because you're a noobie, you won't even know that it's the wrong equipment until you get a little further down the road and have a chance to see what works for you and what doesn't.

Personally, I like the idea of line arrays. Although I want a 10,000 watt system as much as the next guy, the reality is that nobody should have to listen to me playing guitar at mind numbing sound levels. A line array fits much better with my typical venues, allowing me to get room coverage without making the people in front suffer. Line arrays also allow you to hear what you're sending out to the room. That's tough to do with a main/monitor set up.

As you continue looking for advice, I'd suggest keeping an eye on Craigslist and/or Ebay. When you find a system that fits your budget and has been given fair reviews here (and elsewhere), buy it, provided that it's a good price. As long as you're not paying more than 50% to 65% of the new retail price, you can turn around and resell it without much of a loss if it doesn't work out for you.

[mynameis]

Originally Posted by knuckle

Also, what do you guys think about Berhinger stuff? Junk?

Behringer is a good way to gamble if you don't have casino nearby.

Sometimes you get good equipment that performs the job adequately and you can save some money. Other times you can end up with stuff that fails at the worst time.

I've found it's better to spend the little extra the first time to buy a reputable brand known for reliability. Plus you don't have to worry about upgrading when the good enough behringer equipment isn't good enough for what you want to do.

[BuleriaChk]

I think this may be a bum rap on Behringer; they have made a major commitment to quality in the recent past. I have had several of their acoustic amps, and thought they were both excellent bangs for the buck.

I traded up for features and more contemporary acoustic amp technology, not lack of build quality - the build quality seemed just fine. Most of the reviews on recent forums (that I've seen anyway) confirm this impression.

I don't work for Behringer, and don't own any of their equipment right now, but I wouldn't hesitate on a new unit if it fit my needs. I might be a little more cautious if it was over five years old....

YMMV.....

Originally Posted by mynameis

Behringer is a good way to gamble if you don't have casino nearby.

Sometimes you get good equipment that performs the job adequately and you can save some money. Other times you can end up with stuff that fails at the worst time.

I've found it's better to spend the little extra the first time to buy a reputable brand known for reliability. Plus you don't have to worry about upgrading when the good enough behringer equipment isn't good enough for what you want to do.

[knuckle]

Nuff said. I'd love to go with a line array system but the sky is not the limit right now. Later this year I'm going to go with a bose system, sub, tone match, or a RA-400

The RA-400 is just a combo amp that does vocals and guitars, but it's designed by Bob Brozman. He only mics guitars. He doesn't use pickups and this seems to work for him and I'm sure he's playing larger places than I'll ever see.

He said many have called it a bose killer. But I wonder if it does have the dispersion? But he uses it, and he's a pro. $1700 and I'd be done. The Bose system I'm jonesin for is 3k.

Now the cheap route I'm going to probably initially go is probably 2 powered PA speakers and a small mixer and 2 mics. Look, I'm not a pro like some you you guys sound like you are. Chances are I'm not going to hear the small differences most of you speak of. Like I said, later in the year I can spend 4k if I like on sound. I only like to do stuff once. The RA-400 appeals to me as it's a single unit but I don't want something that's not going to work if by some chance in hell I start playing larger places.

But for now it's el cheapo, so I'm contemplating something like this setup


http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Live612/
$350 ea x 2 = $700
2 year warranty on them

$160
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MultiMix8USB/

Shure 57 + 58 $300