Sticker style pickups (le baggs HiFi, k&k) vs UST - stickers are worse?

[cip]

Is it just me or do the sticker style pickups seem to affect resonance more than ust?

I've got a regular l00 with UST and a custom shop lg2 with Lr baggs HiFi that I installed.

It seems like the l00 is more resonant than the lg2 even though In theory the custom shop just should be the more resonant one.

[cip]

Nobody has an opinion? I'm thinking of ripping out the hifi

[Goat Mick]

I have JJB Prestige 330 pickups and one guitar with a K&K and I didn't experience any loss of resonance in any of those guitars. I've had JJB pickups in a half dozen over the years and really like them because they are pretty much transparent to the guitars unplugged tone. The Baggs HiFi pickups have units that are quite a bit larger stuck to the bridgeplate so they may have some effect. I don't know, I've never tried them, however I haven't seen anyone on here report an issue with them. I would judge the effect by how the guitar sounded before the pickup was installed instead of comparing it to a different guitar though.

[BlueStarfish]

Repeating what Goat Mick stated -- the proper comparison is LG2 without pickup to LG2 with pickup. Your regular 100 is not relevant to the question you've asked.

The general consensus is that the soundboard style pickups like you mentioned have zero detectible impact on acoustic tone or volume.

There are different opinions regarding UST pickups. Some have sworn that, at least in certain guitars, they impact the tone and volume. Presumably because they go between the saddle and the guitar and create the possibility for an interruption in the mechanical coupling between the strings, saddle, and guitar. Others have sworn that, at least in their guitars, and when properly installed with a flat saddle and saddle bottom, there is no impact. The viewpoint that UST pickups can interfere with tone and volume are most frequently associated with flexible cable sensor designs like the Baggs Element (which is also used in the Anthem and SL, as well as the SD Wavelength series).

If you are hearing a difference between your two guitars, it's much more likely to be because of differences between the two guitars, not the pickup. Gibson has a reputation for more than average amounts of sample-to-sample variation in their guitars, so maybe your copy of the LG2 is on the wrong end of the bell curve. Or maybe there is something to be done on the set-up, that can affect volume and tone in mysterious ways. Or maybe your Lg2 just needs more aging time.

The HiFi pickup should make no difference. Rip it out if you don't like the amplified tone, but if you are happy with the amplified tone then there is no reason to take it out.

[cip]

Originally Posted by BlueStarfish

Repeating what Goat Mick stated -- the proper comparison is LG2 without pickup to LG2 with pickup. Your regular 100 is not relevant to the question you've asked.

The general consensus is that the soundboard style pickups like you mentioned have zero detectible impact on acoustic tone or volume.

There are different opinions regarding UST pickups. Some have sworn that, at least in certain guitars, they impact the tone and volume. Presumably because they go between the saddle and the guitar and create the possibility for an interruption in the mechanical coupling between the strings, saddle, and guitar. Others have sworn that, at least in their guitars, and when properly installed with a flat saddle and saddle bottom, there is no impact. The viewpoint that UST pickups can interfere with tone and volume are most frequently associated with flexible cable sensor designs like the Baggs Element (which is also used in the Anthem and SL, as well as the SD Wavelength series).

If you are hearing a difference between your two guitars, it's much more likely to be because of differences between the two guitars, not the pickup. Gibson has a reputation for more than average amounts of sample-to-sample variation in their guitars, so maybe your copy of the LG2 is on the wrong end of the bell curve. Or maybe there is something to be done on the set-up, that can affect volume and tone in mysterious ways. Or maybe your Lg2 just needs more aging time.

The HiFi pickup should make no difference. Rip it out if you don't like the amplified tone, but if you are happy with the amplified tone then there is no reason to take it out.

amplfied tone is great but the 100% acoustic tone suffered when the wifi went in.

When I first got the guitar new, it was very very resonant. much more than after the pickup went in.

The problem is that I did a bunch of other things at the same time so its hard to tell which of the things it could be.

In addition to adding the wifi, i also:

Lowered the action (shaved down saddle so break angle of strings reduced)
Went from 12s to 10s

[BlueStarfish]

It's already a short scale guitar, my opinion 10's are too light. I'd run at least 12's and consider 13's.

As you change out the strings, try a temporary shim under the saddle to raise it up a bit. For this purpose, you can try a thin cut from a sheet of plastic like an old credit card, or maybe something slightly thinner. I'm gonna guess that you'll have the tone you liked before back. You may not like the playability yet but you'll have the tone back.

The next step will be to get the guitar properly set up to get the playability you were looking for when you went to 10's and lowered the saddle. Many if not most new guitars, you need to get the nut slots properly cut, and the neck relief set, and then after that is done, get the saddle set to a proper height. Having already shaved the saddle potentially too low, you may need a permanent shim or even a new saddle at this point. A good tech can help you if you don't want to do all this yourself.

Here is some good further reading on set-up:

http://www.bryankimsey.com/setup/index.htm

[cip]

Originally Posted by BlueStarfish

It's already a short scale guitar, my opinion 10's are too light. I'd run at least 12's and consider 13's.

As you change out the strings, try a temporary shim under the saddle to raise it up a bit. For this purpose, you can try a thin cut from a sheet of plastic like an old credit card, or maybe something slightly thinner. I'm gonna guess that you'll have the tone you liked before back. You may not like the playability yet but you'll have the tone back.

The next step will be to get the guitar properly set up to get the playability you were looking for when you went to 10's and lowered the saddle. Many if not most new guitars, you need to get the nut slots properly cut, and the neck relief set, and then after that is done, get the saddle set to a proper height. Having already shaved the saddle potentially too low, you may need a permanent shim or even a new saddle at this point. A good tech can help you if you don't want to do all this yourself.

Here is some good further reading on set-up:

http://www.bryankimsey.com/setup/index.htm

well i dont think the set up is the issue, a tech was the one that did all the work to it, so im sure he did all those things you pointed out. the guitar is on 11s now and some of the resonance is back. but not as much as when the guitar had no pickup, 12s and higher action

[tadol]

Heavier Strings and higher break angle would definitely have a huge effect on the guitar -

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by cip

The problem is that I did a bunch of other things at the same time so its hard to tell which of the things it could be.

In addition to adding the wifi, i also:

Lowered the action (shaved down saddle so break angle of strings reduced)
Went from 12s to 10s

Yep, everything you did could have contributed to the change you're hearing.
Interesting that when you changed those (and probably other things as well) your first assumption was the pickup caused the reduced resonance, when it's fairly common knowledge that going to lighter gage/lower tension strings has a big impact on the energy going into the guitar. What does the tech who did the work think?

10's on an acoustic 6 string is an ultralight set of strings and I would only recommend them for very lightly built instruments like a gypsy jazz Sel-Mac style. I use 11's on mine. I have 12's on my 000 and OM. I use 13's on everything else.

Others here with hand/finger damage sometimes go to ultralight strings so they can keep playing, knowing their tone will suffer.

I would put 12's back on and see if the resonance improves despite the buzzing you may get from your shaved saddle.

[Marshall]

Originally Posted by cip

Lowered the action (shaved down saddle so break angle of strings reduced)
Went from 12s to 10s

There you go. Those are BIG changes that affect tone much more than a little SBT stuck on the bridgeplate.

[Goat Mick]

Originally Posted by cip

Lowered the action (shaved down saddle so break angle of strings reduced)
Went from 12s to 10s

There is your answer. An LG-2 is a pretty robust guitar and needs heavier strings (I use 12’s on mine) to drive the top. You can also get really good and low action on these with 12’s without severely shaving the saddle. With all due respect, I don’t think your tech is very knowledgeable and I would seek out a different one to set up your LG-2. Even if he just followed your instructions on the changes you wanted, a good tech would have warned you of the negative effects of those changes. My LG-2 plays as easily as my Telecaster with low action and still great full, rich tone.

[cip]

Originally Posted by Goat Mick

There is your answer. An LG-2 is a pretty robust guitar and needs heavier strings (I use 12’s on mine) to drive the top. You can also get really good and low action on these with 12’s without severely shaving the saddle. With all due respect, I don’t think your tech is very knowledgeable and I would seek out a different one to set up your LG-2. Even if he just followed your instructions on the changes you wanted, a good tech would have warned you of the negative effects of those changes. My LG-2 plays as easily as my Telecaster with low action and still great full, rich tone.

he did definitely warn against doing it. he did it against his will on my instructions. ive got delicate hands so its tough to play a 12 gauge for me. i guess i didnt realize how robust an lg-2 was. mine is torrified adi as well, so the top must be even stiffer (harder to drive).

i can do it but i have to drop to standard C tuning.

[xjojox]

Agree it wasn’t the HiFi.

I just put one in a Huss & Dalton CM Custom. Played the guitar hours a day for a couple of weeks before the install (and even pulled and replaced the sensors once) and there was no discernible change in resonance or tone of the guitar.

Changes in action and gauge make a big difference, and 10’s in particular on an acoustic are not gonna drive the top at all. Even 11’s create a huge drop as compared to 12+. My Martin HD28 likes 13’s, most of the rest get 12’s.

[Jinder]

It’s not the HiFi.

Two key changes that suck resonance, tone and volume from an acoustic guitar are lowering the action and going to a lighter string gauge. As you’ve done both, I think our answer lays squarely there.

10s are really not much more than chickenfeed in terms of driving a guitar top. All things being equal, your L-00 will cope better with 10s than the LG2 as there is a bit less real estate there in the top that requires driving…plus the skinny upper bout etc will make it respond differently. An LG2 is essentially a baby J45, and is a very different beast despite being in a similarish ballpark size and scale wise.

I’d recommend going up to 11s and seeing how you go. Chances are the lower action that your tech put on your guitar will make heavier strings easier to play.