Help building Emerald Fan Fret

[philjs]

Originally Posted by Jungestrand

On many of the wood guitar when tuned down my ears find the low E dull/less distinct/muddy/not lot LOUD enough compared to higher strings. This is what I want to fix with the fan frets.

The longer scale of a fan fret maintains tension at lower pitch with a lighter gauge string. It sounds like what you need to do is use a heavier gauge string. I play in DADGAD so my bass string (and the two high ones, of course) are tuned down a full step so I generally use a mix of medium and light gauge strings (056, 017 and 013 for the down-tuned strings and 042, 032, 024 for the others) on my standard scale guitars. On my X20 fan fret, I can use a complete light gauge set (053, 042, 032, 024, 016, 012) for DADGAD and the tensions are the same as on my non-fan fret guitars.

My Larrivee J09 has a slightly long scale (25.7") and is setup and strung for CGCFGC with 3 strings down two full steps and the other three down one (from standard tuning) using gauges 070, 053, 042, 032, 024, 016, basically a light gauge set with an 070 bass string (and, yes, it has a wound 2nd string). Note that the 070 string at C has the same tension as an 054 at E. Setup included a new saddle, nut AND drilling out the hole in the tuner post to take the heavier string. It's been tuned this way with these strings for almost 20 years with no ill effects, so up-gauging the bass string is a possibility for you.

I'd suggest you try an 059 or 060 bass string for a set-scale guitar tuned down a full step and see if that helps, before considering a fan fret.

Originally Posted by Jungestrand

But! Could it be that a standard x20 does not have this problem being made of carbon and all? What benefit do you see with the x20 fan fret compared to a regular x20? Down tuned a hole step, no alternate tunings. What are the negatives with fan fret?

I can't compare a standard X20 to my fan fret (though I did have an X7 for a short while) but I also don't expect CF alone to cure your "dull" bass note problem. My purpose in ordering the fan fret X20 was to use lighter gauge, off-the-shelf strings for my DADGAD tuning. My only other issue with a fan fret is the extreme angle of the bridge and the position of my hand that results in "tinny" picking of the treble strings too close to the bridge. As I had mentioned to David, on my X30 strung as a baritone (AEADEA tuning) this is actually a benefit but it's not a desirable feature at higher-pitch tunings. I may end up using the X20 fan fret as a CGCFGC-tuned instrument using medium gauge strings and continue my search for a small spread fan fret that Emerald seems incapable of providing.

Finally, how extreme the angle of the bridge is (and the nut is!) depends on where the perpendicular fret is placed. In theory, if the perpendicular fret was the 12th then the angle of the nut and saddle/bridge (off of the perpendicular) would be the same (though opposite). The closer the perpendicular fret is to the nut, the less the angle and the more the guitar will "feel" like a non-fan fret instrument.

Hope this helps,

Phil

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by Jungestrand

A little of topic maybe but I have been following your discussion with great interest. I eye measured the saddle on my Martin dr jr this morning and there is at least a 5mm difference, low E string being the longer scale.

I can see that there are negatives with fan fret that I have not thought about and it makes me worried, what else am I missing. Maybe this insecurity is why people usually go for the regular neck. On many of the wood guitar when tuned down my ears find the low E dull/less distinct/muddy/not lot LOUD enough compared to higher strings. This is what I want to fix with the fan frets.

But! Could it be that a standard x20 does not have this problem being made of carbon and all? What benefit do you see with the x20 fan fret compared to a regular x20? Down tuned a hole step, no alternate tunings.

What are the negatives with fan fret?

Not much I can add here, but...

The primary reason that you see few fan fret guitars is that guitarists are tradition-bound. Anything remotely out of the ordinary is viewed with suspicion, regardless of the evidence of its value. We're here talking about CF ("sounds like plastic") guitars, with synthetic fretboards ("Richlite is a deal killer"), stainless steel frets ("sound too bright"), and fan frets ("look funny").



I'll go so far as to say that my Emerald X20-7 would be nowhere near as playable, and wouldn't sound anywhere near as good, without fan frets.

I think David puts his finger on what makes this forum so sweet--a lot of people willing to explore.

[Nama Ensou]

Originally Posted by David Eastwood

The primary reason that you see few fan fret guitars is that guitarists are tradition-bound. Anything remotely out of the ordinary is viewed with suspicion, regardless of the evidence of its value.

I'll go so far as to say that my Emerald X20-7 would be nowhere near as playable, and wouldn't sound anywhere near as good, without fan frets.

The players covered by your description are probably mostly to be found among non-serious players. Lots of us want a fanned fretboard and would already have them if they'd been available across the market for a lot longer and were more within reach.

I've still only ever found the opportunity to try a couple of basses with fanned frets and will probably eventually find myself in possession of at least one if not two instruments.

Any of the suspicion aimed towards non-traditional designs comes naturally with the territory due to the lack of exposure from a wide enough range of players to show the public in general that it's a valid design upgrade.

On the other hand, there are so many excellent instruments available that it takes a while for newer designs to take hold.

If anything I've found many players really wanting newer and unusual designs to either experiment with or to brag about, both of which could be viewed as valid reasons, but for many of us, we just want to know that whatever advantages there to be had, will actually make the player happy and not just find regret in having spent so much effort and money finding that it's just not for them.

[mountainmaster]

I have an Aristides electric 7-string with a 26.5 inch scale length and no fan fret. I have no experience with fan frets.
So why am I telling you this? Because this was a mistake. The low B is flabby and the high E is too tight to bend. I should have ordered a fan fret.

So my experience is that for a 7 string it is a must have. For an ordinary 6 string... not so much.

[waterboy]

I have an X30 fan fret, very early 2020. The scale lengths are 24.75" through 25.75" measurements taken from the nut to the 12th fret and doubled. The thought was to try alternate tunings and I have done some of that, but perhaps not as much as I should have. it handles open D really nicely without anything feeling too flabby (I run optima vintageflex 11-47s on it). I do find that it is a little tighter than I like on the bass strings in standard tuning, which sadly is what it is spending most of its time in just now.
I guess the take home is what others have said - fan frets are great if you want to run dropped tunings on standard string sets. If this is not your intent then maybe not worth the extra expense?

[Jungestrand]

Originally Posted by waterboy

I have an X30 fan fret, very early 2020. The scale lengths are 24.75" through 25.75" measurements taken from the nut to the 12th fret and doubled. The thought was to try alternate tunings and I have done some of that, but perhaps not as much as I should have. it handles open D really nicely without anything feeling too flabby (I run optima vintageflex 11-47s on it). I do find that it is a little tighter than I like on the bass strings in standard tuning, which sadly is what it is spending most of its time in just now.
I guess the take home is what others have said - fan frets are great if you want to run dropped tunings on standard string sets. If this is not your intent then maybe not worth the extra expense?

Do you feel that it is to tight when using standard tuning but down tuned two half steps? Thats probably the only non standard tuning I Will use. Dont know if that is called alternate tuning but..

[waterboy]

Originally Posted by Jungestrand

Do you feel that it is to tight when using standard tuning but down tuned two half steps? Thats probably the only non standard tuning I Will use. Dont know if that is called alternate tuning but..

It’s fine if tuned down.
I think that standard tuning only really feels tight for me because I am missing part of my left index finger, so there is no pad on it and I like a soft feel as a consequence. My X7 gets more use for this reason, but the x30 just sounds glorious. The x30 is manageable, just not quite as comfortable, hence the low tension strings I am trying out on it just now.
The point I was trying to make is that the fan fret has a purpose and if you want to cover all the bases with standard string sets then it’s good, but involves higher tension on the bass strings than you would ordinarily have when in standard tuning . If you are likely to stay in standard tuning then it may cause unnecessary compromise, as a standard setup is already optimized for standard string sets.
There is so much personal preference in guitar playing, so your mileage may vary.

[Jungestrand]

I asked if the fan fret guitars go through PLEK machine as the others and the answer was no. That means that in addition to paying 600 extra for the fan fret you allso lose the value of having a pleked guitar.
This might make me reconsider. What do you think?

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by Jungestrand

I asked if the fan fret guitars go through PLEK machine as the others and the answer was no. That means that in addition to paying 600 extra for the fan fret you allso lose the value of having a pleked guitar.
This might make me reconsider. What do you think?

Wouldn’t bother me in the slightest. It means that your guitar will get an extra level of attention during the setup process.

[ac]

I was curious to see exactly what PLEKing did to the guitar and found this video. A bit long, but really interesting and impressive.

I'm guessing that level of high tech machinery has to cost a builder a bit of cash--but it seems you end up with a new level of fret perfection as a result. Really a nice addition for Emerald & their future guitar owners.

[new2guitar_eh]

Thanks for the video link ac, that was very interesting and informative!

[steelvibe]

I've been negative before but kudos to Emerald for this! I cannot criticize them both ways. This is Emerald reinvesting into their business and all the Plek guitars I've owned or tried have been excellent at worst and perfect at best. They are listening to their fan base and that is all I could ask for.