Twins Anyone? Tonewood Comparisons

[jt1]

Nicely done, Juston! Thanks for sharing.

I'm pretty sure, based on all that cool info I gleaned from the rosewood vs. mahogany thread here on AGF, that any differences in tone are due to the atomic-level properties of the dust mites hiding inside your guitars.

Oh, and whatever guitar you play, you sound better when wearing that faux fancy wristwatch.

[justonwo]

Originally Posted by jmat

I would like to join in but lack the recording ________ [fill in the blank: equipment, know how, space, posting accounts, ... ]. If I get any of that worked out I will (too definitive? might? could? won't?) compare a Pernambuco/Engelmann Brondel with a Brazilian/Carpathian Brondel. Both are 12 fret B2c models. They are certainly very different, perhaps best described as lush vs. elegant respectively.

Thanks for posting. As far as I could tell given _______ [enter caveat: head phone quality, hunger level, attention span, ...] I liked the rosewood better on the Brondels and the Mahogany better on the Circa. This experiment controlled for posture, twelve hour carbohydrate intake and family tendency toward nearsightedness.

Very rare to see one Brondel B-2c. Even rarer to see two! Get thee some recording equipment. Let's synchronize carbohydrate inputs and adjust for nearsightedness so the listening experience is common between the two of us.

Originally Posted by TomB'sox

Thanks for taking the time to do that. I thought it was fun and I do indeed hear differences along the lines of what common thought thinks it to be.

I also got the humor and sarcasm aspect and would like to say, I am 100% convinced of the differences now and no one could ever convince me otherwise. I have Justonwo to thank for it.

Yep, I'm glad I FINALLY settled the debate. That's what I'm here for!

Originally Posted by bho

Hi,

What I found most interesting about this tonewood comparison was not the differences between the tonewoods, but how similar the guitars from each builder sound regardless of what tonewood they used.

Both Brondels had substantial overtones and bright trebles.

Both Circas had note clarity and warm trebles.

All four guitars sounded great.

Thanks.

Totally agree. The guitars have more in common with each other than not. The back and side woods are really just flavorings, though they're very important flavorings, in my opinion. It's often said that 80% of the tone comes from the top, etc, etc and that he back and sides make minor contributions. Be that as it may, it's the subtle differences that make all the difference. It's my view that the difference between a good guitar and a great guitar lives in the nuance.

The Brondels definitely have more overtone content than the Circas. The tonewoods do sound more divergent in person than the recordings would leave you to believe, though.

[justonwo]

Originally Posted by TomB'sox

This may add to the comparison, at least I hope. These two guitars are the exact same model and were built back to back with the same bracing, bracing pattern, deflections etc.

They are slightly more different in woods as one is BRW and Redwood while the other is Sapele (in the Mahogany family) and often used as a Mahogany substitute with Sitka. From the wood database: "Sapele is a commonly exported and economically important African wood species. It’s sold both in lumber and veneer form. It is occasionally used as a substitute for Genuine Mahogany, and is sometimes referred to as “Sapele Mahogany.” Technically, the two genera that are commonly associated with mahogany are Swietenia and Khaya, while Sapele is in the Entandrophragma genus, but all three are included in the broader Meliaceae family, so comparisons to true mahogany may not be too far fetched."

The differences are even more apparent to me in this video, but of course there are the tops involved also.

If you think it muddies the waters rather than help, I will remove the post, but I think it helps as I hear the typical characteristics we tend to think of with these woods better.

One of the things that makes Ben's video so great is that he actually plays well! His guitars sound lovely.

Originally Posted by Rwpierce

Thanks for the really cool post Juston of 4 guitars from two of your favorite builders. Guitars sound awesome and the playing is really good.

Thanks so much! I think you may now have an inkling of the Circa OM-28 from your own experience??

[justonwo]

Originally Posted by jt1

Nicely done, Juston! Thanks for sharing.

I'm pretty sure, based on all that cool info I gleaned from the rosewood vs. mahogany thread here on AGF, that any differences in tone are due to the atomic-level properties of the dust mites hiding inside your guitars.

Oh, and whatever guitar you play, you sound better when wearing that faux fancy wristwatch.

The dust mite thing is still the subject of intense debate among AGF Scholars, so I don't think you can make any definitive statements. As an AGF Scholar myself, my own research has led me to some rather esoteric studies of the width of the kerf in kerfed linings and its effect on tone. I'm convinced this may be one of the most important, and shockingly most overlooked, variables considered in the AGF literature.

As for the watch, triple blind studies have revealed an unmistakable damping effect on my left hand. I stopped doing those studies, however, because they produced so much blindness.

[SJ VanSandt]

Definitely settles it for me. I like the rosewood Brondel and the mahogany Circa best. Except I like the maple Circa even better. And please put me on that road trip list.

[TomB'sox]

That Maple Circa that was delivered to B.I.G. was a cannon that sounded like a Grand Piano!

[pandaroo]

There is a video posted by Marcus from The Golden Era Guitar, Singapore where he compared a Keystone build both Modified Dreadnought, both has German spruce top and the only difference was the back and sides - one in BRW and the other ABW (mine).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibgykypHgck

[Michael Watts]

B̶u̶t̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶c̶u̶t̶a̶w̶a̶y̶.̶.̶.̶

My bad. Pre-coffee comment.

[Dogma]

Originally Posted by runamuck

I challenge you to make recordings of these guitars - no video - and without labeling which is which, ask people to guess.

Great idea, please do this. But maybe just with the two Circas for the closest comps.

[jt1]

Originally Posted by justonwo

... As for the watch, triple blind studies have revealed an unmistakable damping effect on my left hand.

My family must have read those studies. They've bought me similar (but, of course, a bit more expensive/collectible) wristwatches for both arms and one with a customized long band to reach around my head to hold the watch against my mouth.

Video, but no audio, apparently, soon.

[justonwo]

Anyone else have any fun tonewood comparisons? I know of this one that jt1 did years ago. A comparison of two Banner SJs. One rosewood. The other mahogany.

[SprintBob]

Sarcasm and fun aside, if you listen with a good pair of headphones, the subtle differences are there in Justin’s guitars and make for a fingerstyle player’s delight. Beautiful guitars both in looks and tone, thanks for posting this.

[BlackKeys36]

You probably already saw it, but in case someone missed it, Steve and Ryan of Kinnaird Guitars West did a test of 3 "as close to identical other than the B/S" as they could last year and did blind and non-blind videos. It's fun to try to guess and see if you were right.

These are sequential tops, bracing, lining, binding, finish was measured at exactly the same thickness, etc.

Blind:


Non-blind:


There are other videos in the same series with different playing styles on their YT channel.

[AH Acoustic]

Hi all --

So these (3) guitars are customs with identical specs, except they are not handmade by luthiers, they are all Taylor GS's. Each challenged my notion of what Taylors could sound like.

I thought it might be beneficial for those viewing this thread to see how the tone woods, without benefit of hand-voiced tops for a certain tone, can affect the sound.

There are prominent differences in sound dampening, range of frequency response, and sustain over the registers, at least to me, that appear characteristic of the varieties.

Luthiers that overcome these differences to achieve a more subtle distinction are to be celebrated all the more, to me, although I am still learning about what's possible.

These are all:

• Taylor Grand Symphony
• European Spruce
• 25.5" scale
• phosphor bronze (uncoated) strings

******


Mahogany





Walnut





Cocobolo (Rosewood)




Enjoy,

-a.h.

[usb_chord]

These are all very impressive, Juston! If forced to pick two purely on the recordings, I'm inclined to go rosewood Brondel and mahogany Circa. Tough choice, though . . . loved them all. Thanks for settling the tonewood comparison debate, btw.