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  #16  
Old 09-23-2021, 04:45 PM
Aspiring Aspiring is offline
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Originally Posted by Joel Teel View Post
Hello again Aspiring…when we talked at BIG, I had no idea you lived in Seattle. My sister and her family have lived there for a very long time, and I’ve enjoyed visiting on many occasions. It’s one of my favorite places, though it’s been almost 20 years since the last time I visited. Congratulations on your new Kinnaird…John did a stellar job with it.



-joel
It is indeed a beautiful spot ...

Sounds like you are overdue for a visit.

I really liked the aesthetics that John came up with for my West Coast and I think the style suits the redwood / cocobolo combination.

Your style from what I saw at the show has similarities of letting the wood speak more than the bling. I think it would also suit that combo well. Look forward to seeing what you come up with!
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  #17  
Old 09-23-2021, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Dustinfurlow View Post
My favorite Cocobolo guitars have been smaller, <15.5" wide builds. I gigged with a 15.5" Engelmann/Cocobolo Mayson for a few months last year and got to know it fairly well. While it wasn't the most astounding guitar overall, it behaved alot like the good, $5-20k guitars with Cocobolo that I've demoed at Cedar Rock. (Goodall, Buendia, Gerber, Bourgeois, etc)

I remember hearing John Slobod say in an interview that he felt Cocobolo is the one wood that has a predictable midrange dip, due to the large amount of bass response it can provide and bright treble akin to Brazilian. He made that statement based on his experience with how he voices and with the high quality, straight-grain stuff like shown above but I agree with him pretty much all the way. It's fun for fingerpicking or flat picking but there are some frequency spectrums that can get belittled fairly easy.

All that said, I feel that smaller guitars give some mids back while not letting the bass go crazy and that in the end makes for a guitar that feels more tonally balanced but still rich and powerful, as cocobolo is known for being.

My personal favorite examples have been with Sitka and Lutz tops, which tend to lean a bit more fundamental and not washed out with overtones. Adirondack with Cocobolo seems to eccentuate that mid dip previously mentioned - it can be a good or a bad thing, as with any other tonewood combo choice or maybe better to say "helpful" and "unhelpful" over good/bad.
I think after living with my Edwinson Zephyr 00 for nearly a year that is Adi/Coco, my experience playing this guitar alongside my Doerr Lutz/Maple and Froggy Adi/EIR is that the Zephyr has a slightly warmer, more mellow personality. String choice can temper this significantly one way or the other. That perceived mellow character could be due to the mid range dip Slobod and Dustin reference. But the tonal color differences between all three guitars is compelling and adds variety in my playing. Keep in mind when I visited your shop last year, I brought along my Santa Cruz Skye 00 which is Adi/Coco and that is also a superlative fingerstyle guitar that I don’t think exhibits a mid-range scoop. That said, I would have to believe much of this is in the hands of the luthier to a big degree.

This is a pretty perky song played with my Zephyr and I believe the guitar sounds fairly balanced but let your ears be the judge (please excuse the sloppy breathing, off day for breath control).

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Doerr Trinity 12 Fret 00 (Lutz/Maple)
Edwinson Zephyr 13 Fret 00 (Adi/Coco)
Froggy Bottom H-12 (Adi/EIR)
Kostal 12 Fret OMC (German Spruce/Koa)
Rainsong APSE 12 Fret (Carbon Fiber)
Taylor 812ce-N 12 fret (Sitka/EIR Nylon)

Last edited by SprintBob; 09-23-2021 at 08:08 PM.
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  #18  
Old 09-24-2021, 05:55 AM
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Joel Teel Joel Teel is offline
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Originally Posted by cigarfan View Post
You forgot ... klmnopqrstuvwxyz
Just a different way of counting to ten, in order to recalibrate my system

-joel
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Last edited by Joel Teel; 09-24-2021 at 07:10 AM.
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  #19  
Old 09-24-2021, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Nemoman View Post
My only experience with Coco is on my Wilborn Arum which has a Tunnel 14 troll top. Huge sound and tone that goes above and beyond that of most 14" guitars. I wouldn't hesitate to use redwood with cocobolo again...
Thanks Kevin. You’re right about that Toad-built, troll-topped Arum…..Frog’s accomplice hit it out of the park with that one, as he always does.

-joel
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  #20  
Old 09-24-2021, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by islandguitar View Post
As above.....my Doerr is Cocobolo/Lucky Strike Redwood.....lower bout is 15.5.

Ahead of the build, Tom described this combo as "magical"....no question he was right on the money. Big sound, and wonderful tone.
Thank you for sharing this Fred (I noticed your real name on your SoundCloud page)…the song, as well as the Doerr sound wonderful. I’ll be going back to your SoundCloud page to listen to more of your music.

-joel
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‘17 Two Hands Guitar Co.
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‘95 Taylor Limited Edition GAWS (I traded my Gibson J-200 for this guitar in ‘95)

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  #21  
Old 09-24-2021, 06:35 AM
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Joel Teel Joel Teel is offline
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Originally Posted by Cocobolo Kid View Post
Gotta give this thread a bump. Needless to say, I'm a huge fan of Cocobolo. I like the rich, dark sound and beauty it brings.

Great thread!
Hello John…thanks for the bump. I’ve been drawn to Cocobolo for longer than I can remember. It’s become such an integral part of my life, that I now view my relationship with it in a holistic manner.

-joel
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‘95 Taylor Limited Edition GAWS (I traded my Gibson J-200 for this guitar in ‘95)

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Last edited by Joel Teel; 09-24-2021 at 07:12 AM.
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  #22  
Old 09-24-2021, 07:02 AM
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Joel Teel Joel Teel is offline
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Originally Posted by Aspiring View Post
It is indeed a beautiful spot ...

Sounds like you are overdue for a visit.

I really liked the aesthetics that John came up with for my West Coast and I think the style suits the redwood / cocobolo combination.

Your style from what I saw at the show has similarities of letting the wood speak more than the bling. I think it would also suit that combo well. Look forward to seeing what you come up with!
You are correct, Sir. Every artist searches for a stylistic philosophy that resonates within their own soul…and I respect each and every one of them, from the simple, to the elaborate. For me, there is no more-astounding beauty than that which is found within simplicity…and this philosophy echos and resonates within all aspects of my personal life.

I totally geek-out over unique and beautiful specimens of wood…and aside from the primary goal of striving to create beautiful-sounding guitars…my main goal, as a visual artist, is to allow the beauty of these woods to speak for themselves. I want to display the intricacies of my artistry…but without distracting from the beauty that God has created within the woods, which I am privileged to use.

-joel
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000/Concert, Sitka/Brazilian Imbuia

‘17 Two Hands Guitar Co.
0000/Auditorium, Sitka/Indonesian RW

‘93 Taylor 712 (I spent 20 years trying to convince the owner to sell me this guitar)

‘95 Taylor Limited Edition GAWS (I traded my Gibson J-200 for this guitar in ‘95)

TWO HANDS GUITARS

Last edited by Joel Teel; 09-24-2021 at 07:13 AM.
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  #23  
Old 09-24-2021, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by SprintBob View Post
I think after living with my Edwinson Zephyr 00 for nearly a year that is Adi/Coco, my experience playing this guitar alongside my Doerr Lutz/Maple and Froggy Adi/EIR is that the Zephyr has a slightly warmer, more mellow personality. String choice can temper this significantly one way or the other. That perceived mellow character could be due to the mid range dip Slobod and Dustin reference. But the tonal color differences between all three guitars is compelling and adds variety in my playing. Keep in mind when I visited your shop last year, I brought along my Santa Cruz Skye 00 which is Adi/Coco and that is also a superlative fingerstyle guitar that I don’t think exhibits a mid-range scoop. That said, I would have to believe much of this is in the hands of the luthier to a big degree.

This is a pretty perky song played with my Zephyr and I believe the guitar sounds fairly balanced but let your ears be the judge (please excuse the sloppy breathing, off day for breath control).

Bob…yes indeed. I do remember the Santa Cruz from when you visited the shop last year. I’m glad you’ve bonded with your Edwinson. I really enjoyed the opportunity to play it prior to you absconding with her…with your catamaran in tow. Thanks for sharing this wonderful song.

-joel
__________________
‘17 Two Hands Guitar Co.
000/Concert, Sitka/Brazilian Imbuia

‘17 Two Hands Guitar Co.
0000/Auditorium, Sitka/Indonesian RW

‘93 Taylor 712 (I spent 20 years trying to convince the owner to sell me this guitar)

‘95 Taylor Limited Edition GAWS (I traded my Gibson J-200 for this guitar in ‘95)

TWO HANDS GUITARS
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  #24  
Old 09-24-2021, 03:56 PM
joeld joeld is offline
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Hey Haasome, I'm also toying with the idea of ordering a Cocobolo SC OMG. I'm curious about yours. Do you think the Cocobolo moved the tone knob away from what you'd get with EIR? Guessing you played an EIR version before ordering yours... Did you get advanced X-bracing or deep-body, or any other structural option, and what flavor of top wood? I also want a big fat reverby rich powerful instrument. Sorry if I'm derailing the thread. /jd
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  #25  
Old 09-24-2021, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by joeld View Post
Hey Haasome, I'm also toying with the idea of ordering a Cocobolo SC OMG. I'm curious about yours. Do you think the Cocobolo moved the tone knob away from what you'd get with EIR? Guessing you played an EIR version before ordering yours... Did you get advanced X-bracing or deep-body, or any other structural option, and what flavor of top wood? I also want a big fat reverby rich powerful instrument. Sorry if I'm derailing the thread. /jd
I owned a SCGC OM German/EIR (now sold) and this Italian/Cocobolo OMG definitely moved the tone deeper, darker, richer - while maintaining the great balance. I did not get advanced bracing or deep body, but did spend a good amount of time and energy working with Carolyn on my tonal expectations. I have commissioned 6 custom guitars and my experience working on tone with SCGC is without equal. Frankly I was pleasantly surprised with the outcome.

As an aside, I’ve just received a Custom SCGC H13 with similar results. I’ve owned another off the-shelf H13, which just missed on the tone I hoped for so the focus of this custom H13 order was on tone. They listen to what you ask for. Big win — twice!
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  #26  
Old 09-24-2021, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Joel Teel View Post
Thank you for sharing this Fred (I noticed your real name on your SoundCloud page)…the song, as well as the Doerr sound wonderful. I’ll be going back to your SoundCloud page to listen to more of your music.

-joel
Joel, thank you so much! I really appreciate your taking time to listen. The depth of the Doerr is pretty striking.....on SC, scroll down, "Fretful", "Sunday's Comfort" are in alternate tunings without capo and played on the Doerr.
More to come this fall! Thanks again!
Fred
By the way....just finished going through your beautiful web site and learning more about your instruments.....elegant! Now, back to BIG to hear more from the weekend gathering. All the best!
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Last edited by islandguitar; 09-24-2021 at 08:03 PM. Reason: added info
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  #27  
Old 09-24-2021, 07:52 PM
AH Acoustic AH Acoustic is offline
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Default Cocobolo and all the ways it is amazing

From my experience hearing Cocobolo, it has a few amazing properties that make it possible to experience very different sounds with a different top:
  1. sustain,
  2. overtone potential,
  3. frequency response range (low to high), and
  4. balance.
  • I have heard an Adirondack spruce topped Cocobolo guitar that was full and resonant, with exceptional power, sustain, and frequency range. It sounded primarily fundamental.
  • I have also heard, in the same body size, a European spruce topped Cocobolo guitar that brought out an incredible array of overtones that simply didn't exist in the spectrum of the Adirondack topped guitar.

If one is after the dynamic power and frequency response, going with a top that doesn't maximize overtones makes sense, such as Sitka or Adi;

While if wanting to highlight the overtone potential, choosing a top to suit, such as any European spruce top, Redwood, or Cedar seems like they would fit the bill best.

This is a statement based on hearing two guitars personally, so not very many.

Those who have heard stronger overtone content from Sitka or Adi, please feel free to add to this.

-a.h.
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  #28  
Old 09-26-2021, 09:16 AM
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Joel, the first Cocobolo guitar I played that I really liked was yours at BIG 1. I enjoyed the Kinnaird guitar at BIG 2. I agree that, visually, a redwood-topped, Coco guitar could make for a dark overall look but it worked very nicely on John’s guitar. Cedar would pair beautifully, but I really think if you found a lighter colored redwood, it would be gorgeous. And if it were a larger guitar with all those bevels…I’m starting to drool. Wonder what Sam would say to twin guitars, with hers being the size she likes. This could be financially dangerous for me, my friend.
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  #29  
Old 09-27-2021, 05:35 PM
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Joel Teel Joel Teel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AH Acoustic View Post
From my experience hearing Cocobolo, it has a few amazing properties that make it possible to experience very different sounds with a different top:
  1. sustain,
  2. overtone potential,
  3. frequency response range (low to high), and
  4. balance.
  • I have heard an Adirondack spruce topped Cocobolo guitar that was full and resonant, with exceptional power, sustain, and frequency range. It sounded primarily fundamental.
  • I have also heard, in the same body size, a European spruce topped Cocobolo guitar that brought out an incredible array of overtones that simply didn't exist in the spectrum of the Adirondack topped guitar.

If one is after the dynamic power and frequency response, going with a top that doesn't maximize overtones makes sense, such as Sitka or Adi;

While if wanting to highlight the overtone potential, choosing a top to suit, such as any European spruce top, Redwood, or Cedar seems like they would fit the bill best.

This is a statement based on hearing two guitars personally, so not very many.

Those who have heard stronger overtone content from Sitka or Adi, please feel free to add to this.

-a.h.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences A.H.…y’all are all bringing lots of great input.

-joel

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikealpine View Post
Joel, the first Cocobolo guitar I played that I really liked was yours at BIG 1. I enjoyed the Kinnaird guitar at BIG 2. I agree that, visually, a redwood-topped, Coco guitar could make for a dark overall look but it worked very nicely on John’s guitar. Cedar would pair beautifully, but I really think if you found a lighter colored redwood, it would be gorgeous. And if it were a larger guitar with all those bevels…I’m starting to drool. Wonder what Sam would say to twin guitars, with hers being the size she likes. This could be financially dangerous for me, my friend.
Wow Mike…I’m honored to be your first Cocobolo-love….
Watch out though…I sorted through two dozen sets of Tunnel-14 a few days ago, and picked one out to pair with the Cocobolo back & sides…even before I read what you had to say here about twin guitars…
So…..do you want a cutaway?

-joel
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‘17 Two Hands Guitar Co.
000/Concert, Sitka/Brazilian Imbuia

‘17 Two Hands Guitar Co.
0000/Auditorium, Sitka/Indonesian RW

‘93 Taylor 712 (I spent 20 years trying to convince the owner to sell me this guitar)

‘95 Taylor Limited Edition GAWS (I traded my Gibson J-200 for this guitar in ‘95)

TWO HANDS GUITARS
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  #30  
Old 09-27-2021, 07:14 PM
Richard Mott Richard Mott is offline
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Hi Joel, be assured I am a total fan of cocobolo—the great “alto” voice, super richness, glassy overtones. BUT: one I thing I noticed in demo-ing two Circa 00s, one in coco and one in mahogany, is how much slower the coco was to respond than the mahogany. I guess that’s not a surprise, given the density of coco, and it probably isn’t something I would even have noticed twenty years ago. I sat there hypnotized by the coco sound, but the mahogany was quicker and more immediate, both in the clarity of the tonal envelope and the speed of response. For quick or predominantly rhythmic playing, the mahogany was hands down—maybe the reason D-18s are a standard for bluegrass flat-picking. But the coco was mesmerizing. —R.
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