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Old 09-18-2021, 01:07 AM
91709jack 91709jack is offline
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Default 9/30/21 - Update: The Surprise Verdict (Tested 5 cutaway guitars)

(Update is the 5th post below...)

Decided to devote the whole afternoon to checking out a few finalists, with a side of sitting on the freeway for over 3 hours. (Not a complaint. The fact that I didn't drive that going to work is a blessing.)

Cliff Notes version: Looks like GK Pro Negra VS 2CWE! Would love to hear owners of both chime in. Thanks!
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"Finalists" in the sense of only what I can PHYSICALLY play.

First stop, Guitar Salon International. Many thanks to JohnPaul, and Andrew who spent the time, and left me plucking away to my little heart's content. Haven't been in a guitar store to play away like that in over 20 years. (Side note: never got around to plugging any of them in. Not a big concern for me. 98% more important for me to sound great unplugged.)

Grades are obviously very personal & subjective.

1. Cordoba GK Pro - 4 out of 5. Kept on coming back to this. Too bad they didn't have a Negra on hand. Andrew's comment on the potential difference is that the Negra might have a more piano-like tone (his words, not mine), which is exactly what I'm hunting for. I capo'd it all the way up to the 8th fret, hardly any distortion in notes. And my left hand kept on forgetting there was a cutaway to freely slide up to! Nice change.

2. Cordoba SOMETHING - 1 out of 5. Another cutaway, a step or two below. Main difference was an even thinner body, and the sound was a bit plasticky...

3. Hermanos Camps "FL11C BLANCA" SP/CY - 3 out of 5. They just got this in. Beautiful craftsmanship. The sound was too bright for my tastes, even more so than the GK Pro.

4. Cordoba Master Series Hauser - 3 out of 5. NOT a cutaway. Was told Cordoba has a handmade cutaway that's in the 5k - 6k range, and was basically very similar to this, with the cutaway. Maybe it's me, but it didn't make my ear and heart skip a beat or two. Again, a beautiful instrument. But sight and sound unseen - I have to pass.

2nd stop: Imperial Vintage Guitars, Burbank. Tyler was awesome, who hung in there as I barely got in 10 minutes before closing, thanks to a brutal 23-mile drive that took more than an hour.

5. 1991 Ramirez 2CWE - 4.5 out of 5. Playing it reminded me of when I first picked up the Hirade H5 I've had for over 24 years. Even with the older strings, the sound definitely spoke to me. Surprisingly, while doing some research online, I usually saw Ramirez guitars with a relatively higher action. This thing was pretty low, almost like the ideal "slide a cigarette" test flamenco players prefer, I was told. Checked out the different spots to see if there were any cracks, and other than 2 little holes drilled into the base (!), very mint looking for a 30-year specimen. The thickness of the body was almost, or most likely like a regular classical, which I was told affects the volume, etc. One minor negative - it does NOT have the usual Fishman Presys rectangular looking electronics. Instead there are 3 buttons...

3rd stop: Private party, sort of.

6. Takamine Hirade TH5C. 3.5 out of 5. Used, but pretty mint. I was really curious how this would compare to my H5. They're practically twins. To my surprise, not quite. To be candid, had I been able to schedule to see this first, might have come home with the Ramirez...

Sort of conclusions: Cutaways aren't really a focus for the higher end luthiers, as the demand for them is so small. So there are really only two categories - the ones in the few hundred dollar range, and the step-up category in the 2k range. And at least for me, the sound difference is fairly obvious, so I'm willing to step up to it.

The handful of higher end crossovers are in 2 situations I'm not willing to be stuck in: either buy and can't return, or CAN return, but deal with importing from Europe somewhere...

Practical verdict: Will be ordering a Cordoba GK Pro Negra from Guitar Center, as I have 30 days to return. It'll go head-to-head with the Ramirez 2CWE. (There is an admittedly unscientific and emotional gut instinct in me that prefers a Spanish (or Japanese) made guitar, over one made in China. Andrew at GSI of course notes that it is an inaccurate belief that many have.

Last edited by 91709jack; 10-01-2021 at 12:10 AM. Reason: last update
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  #2  
Old 09-18-2021, 07:41 AM
Guest 928
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Very nice review. My brother-in-law has a Ramirez of about the same vintage, it is the guitar I use for comparison whenever I get the itch to try something new. It's hard to beat.
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Old 09-20-2021, 01:26 PM
JonWer JonWer is offline
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I love my gk pro, which is maple b/s rather than negra. She’s a joy to play.
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Old 09-22-2021, 11:18 AM
Red_Label Red_Label is offline
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In terms of nylon cutaways/crossovers I've owned 4 Cordoba GK Pros (2 - negra, 2 - blanca), GK Studio negra, FCWE, 55FCE maple, and 55FCE ziricote (16 Cordoba instruments total). Have also owned a Takamine 132SC, Breedlove Master Class Bossa Nova, Breedlove Passport N250, Rodriguez something or other, couple of Yamahas, Eastman Cabaret, and more that I can't even remember. I've gigged nearly all of them. The Cordoba GK Pros are my favorites without question... with the Eastman Cabaret and Breedlove Master Class being on par, but mellower. They're more suited to fingerstyle jazz or classical tones. I prefer the bolder tones of the GK Pros. Neither is better, just different. In comparing the negra to the blanca... the negra has a slightly fuller tone, while the blanca is slightly snappier. Both models are awesome though.

P.S. I've also owned many non-cutaway, non-electric nylons over the years including Cordoba C12 SP/IN and Yairi CY140. But since we're not discussing non-cutaways here, I won't compare those.
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Old 10-01-2021, 12:07 AM
91709jack 91709jack is offline
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Default 9/30/2021 - Update - The Verdict

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest 928 View Post
Very nice review. My brother-in-law has a Ramirez of about the same vintage, it is the guitar I use for comparison whenever I get the itch to try something new. It's hard to beat.
Thanks Guest 928 - have to admit the 2CWE was pretty compelling. Reached out to Ramirez in Madrid, and Cristina Ramirez responded, noting that a newer version called the CUT1 replaced the 2CWE, now with higher grade materials, although no specifics were given. Actually found a CUT1 for sale, was *THIS* close to checking it out - as they offered a 30-day return policy. (I thought it was more than fair that I could at least try something out, and for the cost of return shipping - between $50 to $120 in 2 instances, well worth before committing to spending $2,000 - $2,500.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonWer View Post
I love my gk pro, which is maple b/s rather than negra. She’s a joy to play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Label View Post
In terms of nylon cutaways/crossovers I've owned 4 Cordoba GK Pros (2 - negra, 2 - blanca), GK Studio negra, FCWE, 55FCE maple, and 55FCE ziricote (16 Cordoba instruments total). Have also owned a Takamine 132SC, Breedlove Master Class Bossa Nova, Breedlove Passport N250, Rodriguez something or other, couple of Yamahas, Eastman Cabaret, and more that I can't even remember. I've gigged nearly all of them. The Cordoba GK Pros are my favorites without question... with the Eastman Cabaret and Breedlove Master Class being on par, but mellower. They're more suited to fingerstyle jazz or classical tones. I prefer the bolder tones of the GK Pros. Neither is better, just different. In comparing the negra to the blanca... the negra has a slightly fuller tone, while the blanca is slightly snappier. Both models are awesome though.

P.S. I've also owned many non-cutaway, non-electric nylons over the years including Cordoba C12 SP/IN and Yairi CY140. But since we're not discussing non-cutaways here, I won't compare those.

JonWer & Red_Label - Tavi Jinariu's demo on the GK Pro Negra certainly made me keep it in the running. Beautiful enough sound to MY ears.

-----------------

So here's what happened.

Ended up calling German Vasquez Rubio's shop for repairing my H5 which they confirmed had a bowed neck somewhere, and something about the fret wires being too flat to work with, causing the 4th string to buzz pretty when a capo's on.

GV Rubio is a local SoCal luthier. I remembered visiting his shop back in 1997 when I heard about him from Guitar Salon. Played one of his $2,000 guitars back then. Beautiful, but a bit over my budget back then.

As I chatted with Armand, it turned out Rubio occasionally makes a cutaway. And he happened to have one available. A flamenco one, but with a CEDAR top! Now I had to try it out.

Today was that day. To be specific, the tones in the lower frets didn't necessarily catch my ear. But in the upper registers, with the capo at 7th or 9th, it was gorgeous. It was a Concert model with about a $7,000 price tag.

As I glanced at the glass case, I catch ANOTHER cutaway, and asked Armand about it. "Oh THAT. I forgot we had that one."

When someone commissions an Elite model, which is normally DOUBLE the price of a Concert, Rubio builds one without the expensive woods and materials, to make sure it's what the client wants.

This particular demo is a Concert version, in Spruce, with the floating neck, and a bowed lower part of the soundboard, all specifics from his client.

As I played it, it only confirmed my preference for the sound of a cedar top. And for the first time, I tried out a guitar with the 14th fret meeting the body instead of the 12th.

OH MY GOD. There's a song I've fingerpicked, but never finished, because it just goes way up there. It was absolutely freaky to not only reach those notes with ease, but was able to throw my thumb around and play a GM7 on the 10th fret! My brain (& heart) just stopped for a moment - questioning if I just did that.

Examining the neck, I then asked if German can further shave a little width and thickness off, as I often find fingerpicking a song in C & F is more "satisfying" in terms of imitating the nuances of voice, instead of D & G, although the latter provides a better & easier fingering many times, primarily because I have to play the F bass with my thumb. Turns out Rubio knows just how much he can shave things off and keep the integrity, etc.

It was a treat to see the luthier in there, been at it since 1969. That's a 52 year career. That 14th fret neck modification suddenly flung me into the buy side. After a few more questions, and seeing they were more than happy to accommodate my requests, I gave them a deposit. It felt like getting a guitar pregnancy test with a positive reading, for a 7-month gestation period. I figure the last time I bought a guitar was 24 years ago. To join my wife in the "cost per use" justification, if God blesses me with another 20 years to play, why, it's just a dollar a day!

In all seriousness, while I have no problem haggling for a deal for all the other guitars in consideration, I felt this man's art, talent & dedication had earned him his right to command his price. My respect and admiration for him stomped out the temptation to ask for any kind of discount. It's one thing to deal with a salesman, another to meet the artisan who handcrafts the instrument that puts a smile on my face and heart when I pick away in the garage at midnight.

Some fun bonus stuff: It was recommended to go with the French polish for the sound. The slight negative was it's a more delicate surface that wears and nicks. That didn't bother me, but I can always stop in for Rubio himself to restore! And they also said I'm more than welcome to stop by, snap some pictures of the progress as it goes. (As a real estate agent, I know how some are excited over a new build and come take pictures as their home is built along the way. Well, I get to do that with this.)

Told my wife I'll have to update our estate planning, and note that THIS will be the most valued physical possession I have. Unless of course our grandson wants it. But little one's just 6 MONTHS old!!!

Here's German in his workshop, a snapshot of my custom order specs, and a picture of that 14th fret model. (Not written in is the spec for the L.R Baggs pickup.)

THANKS again to everyone who have contributed to my search for a cutaway.






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  #6  
Old 10-01-2021, 05:04 AM
JonWer JonWer is offline
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Congratulations, your research and patience is rewarding you
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  #7  
Old 10-05-2021, 03:46 PM
Carey Carey is offline
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German Vasquez does beautiful work! A very good choice, IMO.
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