k&k pure mini - Weak low E string

[iSoft]

Hi everyone,

I installed earlier this week a K&K Pure mini in my 000-13e and it sounds pretty awesome !
I just have a tiny problem, it's that the low E string is a bit weak in output in comparison to the other strings.
Actually, when played unfretted, the low E sounds really good, but when fretted, it sounds a bit tiny.

Installation looks good and I don't think that it would bu gluing problem as A sounds really good and E too when unfretted.

Did anyone encountered this problem on his guitar with the K&K ? I often read about the high E string being weak but never the low E.

Here's a (bad) picture of the installation :

[hubcapsc]

The installation looks clean - not sloppy. Did you use the jig they
supply to install it? It might be the angle of the picture, but the
transducers might not be placed symmetrically. The middle
one looks smack-dab in the middle, but the other don't look
symmetrical relative to the pin holes. Just a guess...

My Ken Stika guitar used to have an undersaddle pickup. The
luthier removed it at the last set-up. I might try to put a K&K
back in there, and have read about installation, but have never
done it.

-Mike

[Rudy4]

Your installation looks very good, including the normal K&K suggestion for locating the string 1/2 sensor directly in line with the high e string.

I normally "split the difference" and shift the string 1/2 sensor 75% of the way toward the high e string location. This depends on the X bracing and how the bridge plate butts against it. All of my Pure Mini installs have been very balanced with no level problems with the 1/2 sensor installed 3/4 of the way toward the high e position.

K&K sites not using gel CA or not enough glue as the primary reason for low individual string output, but your installation looks spot on.

If you don't have a favorite string you might want to try a different type or brand of string. If these are new strings I'd guess that the output will even out after the strings get a few hours of play on them.

If you continue to notice a weak low E then I'd recommend (carefully) shaving the low E transducer and re-bedding it in new gel superglue.

[martingitdave]

Installation seems good. Check your amp or preamp for a low cut filter set @ or above 80Hz.

[James May]

The installation seems spot on. You say your open low E sounds fine, that presumably means balanced with the open A. If so then the issue can't really be the pickup. Do you hear the issue acoustically?

[SGFletch]

I have had the low E issue with K&K before. I also have it with a Schatten HFN, although that may not be of note here.

Anyway, I just did a K&K install a few weeks back. Being conscious of this low E issue, I didn't use the installation jig. I just put the bridge pins in and in successive order, placed glue on the contacts (using rubber gloves) and reached in with it by hand and placed it where I thought it should go in relation to the bridge pins/bridge line. Essentially, I was trying for the same locations the jig would have led me to, but without the jig. Honestly, dual-golf-tee location and the putty, etc. was frustrating me and I figured I know where they are supposed to go.

Anyway, when it came to the low E, I placed that contact about even with the Low E bridge pin, maybe even more to the outside of the string spacing, to avoid the exact issue you mention.

In my case, it sounds great. I realize that there may be some risks involved. There could be some phase cancellation. Perhaps there is a usual reason for the sensors to be a certain distance from each other. However, given the amount of play involved in any installation, maybe it is OK to mess with the locations a bit. If I had thought about it beforehand, I might have done the same thing with the sensor for the high E and B strings, moving it a little to the treble side on istallation.

After all, the K&K is mid-focused. Maybe some placement variation can mitigate that, to a slight degree.

I'm not advocating this, just sharing what I tried. In this case, it worked and the guitar sounds very full and I hear the low E the way I want to.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by SGFletch

I have had the low E issue with K&K before. I also have it with a Schatten HFN, although that may not be of note here.

Anyway, I just did a K&K install a few weeks back. Being conscious of this low E issue, I didn't use the installation jig. I just put the bridge pins in and in successive order, placed glue on the contacts (using rubber gloves) and reached in with it by hand and placed it where I thought it should go in relation to the bridge pins/bridge line. Essentially, I was trying for the same locations the jig would have led me to, but without the jig. Honestly, dual-golf-tee location and the putty, etc. was frustrating me and I figured I know where they are supposed to go.

Anyway, when it came to the low E, I placed that contact about even with the Low E bridge pin, maybe even more to the outside of the string spacing, to avoid the exact issue you mention.

In my case, it sounds great. I realize that there may be some risks involved. There could be some phase cancellation. Perhaps there is a usual reason for the sensors to be a certain distance from each other. However, given the amount of play involved in any installation, maybe it is OK to mess with the locations a bit. If I had thought about it beforehand, I might have done the same thing with the sensor for the high E and B strings, moving it a little to the treble side on istallation.

After all, the K&K is mid-focused. Maybe some placement variation can mitigate that, to a slight degree.

I'm not advocating this, just sharing what I tried. In this case, it worked and the guitar sounds very full and I hear the low E the way I want to.

I'm glad that worked out for you.

The beauty of the K&K installation jig is that it's quite easy to position the transducer EXACTLY where you want it to end up. The clear plexiglass jig ensures that each transducer is dead center under the bridge saddle location, and then it's up to the user to follow K&K's recommended lateral positioning or to "season to taste" as far as where you want the transducers.

K&K now recommends the string 1 / 2 transducer be placed in line with the high E bridge pin. They do not recommend "equal-distant" transducer spacing and haven't for quite some time.

I've done somewhere around a dozen Pure Mini installations and I'm not brave enough to feel my way around the bridge plate with a transducer and glob of gel superglue on the end of my finger.

I admire your intestinal fortitude, but I wouldn't personally recommend anyone do that.

[iSoft]

Originally Posted by hubcapsc

The installation looks clean - not sloppy. Did you use the jig they
supply to install it? It might be the angle of the picture, but the
transducers might not be placed symmetrically. The middle
one looks smack-dab in the middle, but the other don't look
symmetrical relative to the pin holes. Just a guess...

My Ken Stika guitar used to have an undersaddle pickup. The
luthier removed it at the last set-up. I might try to put a K&K
back in there, and have read about installation, but have never
done it.

-Mike

I did use the provided jig.
The trasnducer of the high E and B string should right under the E as mentioned in the K&K manual

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Your installation looks very good, including the normal K&K suggestion for locating the string 1/2 sensor directly in line with the high e string.

I normally "split the difference" and shift the string 1/2 sensor 75% of the way toward the high e string location. This depends on the X bracing and how the bridge plate butts against it. All of my Pure Mini installs have been very balanced with no level problems with the 1/2 sensor installed 3/4 of the way toward the high e position.

K&K sites not using gel CA or not enough glue as the primary reason for low individual string output, but your installation looks spot on.

If you don't have a favorite string you might want to try a different type or brand of string. If these are new strings I'd guess that the output will even out after the strings get a few hours of play on them.

If you continue to notice a weak low E then I'd recommend (carefully) shaving the low E transducer and re-bedding it in new gel superglue.

I have Paradigm on it right now, but have few sets of Martin Authentic that i love, will try them within the week. Thanks for the tip

Originally Posted by James May

The installation seems spot on. You say your open low E sounds fine, that presumably means balanced with the open A. If so then the issue can't really be the pickup. Do you hear the issue acoustically?

I don't hear it unplugged, everything is well balanced when playing.

Originally Posted by SGFletch

I have had the low E issue with K&K before. I also have it with a Schatten HFN, although that may not be of note here.

Anyway, I just did a K&K install a few weeks back. Being conscious of this low E issue, I didn't use the installation jig. I just put the bridge pins in and in successive order, placed glue on the contacts (using rubber gloves) and reached in with it by hand and placed it where I thought it should go in relation to the bridge pins/bridge line. Essentially, I was trying for the same locations the jig would have led me to, but without the jig. Honestly, dual-golf-tee location and the putty, etc. was frustrating me and I figured I know where they are supposed to go.

Anyway, when it came to the low E, I placed that contact about even with the Low E bridge pin, maybe even more to the outside of the string spacing, to avoid the exact issue you mention.

In my case, it sounds great. I realize that there may be some risks involved. There could be some phase cancellation. Perhaps there is a usual reason for the sensors to be a certain distance from each other. However, given the amount of play involved in any installation, maybe it is OK to mess with the locations a bit. If I had thought about it beforehand, I might have done the same thing with the sensor for the high E and B strings, moving it a little to the treble side on istallation.

After all, the K&K is mid-focused. Maybe some placement variation can mitigate that, to a slight degree.

I'm not advocating this, just sharing what I tried. In this case, it worked and the guitar sounds very full and I hear the low E the way I want to.

That's what i'll maybe try next time i install one, getting the tranducer closer to the Low E to see, but here the problem of the Low E is not really something major, we still ear it clearly, it would'nt justify takeing the risk of removing the glued tranducer to place it somewhere else

Thanks for your tip !