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  #16  
Old 12-20-2010, 05:25 PM
Sage97 Sage97 is offline
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Originally Posted by anton View Post
Sage,

As far as recording on the Mac Mini, i do not have one, but do record to my iMac. I would think given the sufficient horse power a Mac Mini would work for recording.

Anton
Anton,

Do you use the iMac for anything else or exclusively for recording?
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  #17  
Old 12-20-2010, 07:42 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default Aloha Sage RE Recording Computer

Aloha Sage,

RE: Using your new iMac for recording only.

If you go to DAW user forum sites like Logic's, you'll read about how end- users are basically screwing up their ability to maximize their DAW's & encountering numerous errors by mixing & matching recording with their everyday computer activities. Hundreds of stories like that are at user forums.

Even partitioning can create problems. I found that out using PC's with PTLE & everyday activities, which can cause lost hours of creativity if you don't watch it. There is always some upgrade for everyday use that's gonna get you, sooner or later.

IMO, if you are going to do a fair amount of regular recording, it's best to:

- use a separate computer
- don't upgrade to the latest version of your DAW until the bugs are out. Choose to lag behind. What you'll gain is increased stability & less chance to lose music data
- always use external HD's so as not to overload the computer HD. You'll realize the value of space & open RAM when you get further into DAW's, Sage.

I found that you really can run into problems with errors. compatibility & space availability when allowing everday computer use upgrades all the time -like Blue Tooth, Photo programs, or all those killer PC upgrades - yikes(!), etc. IMO, all non-recording functions can detract or inhibit computer performance for DAW recording - especially if using external plug-in's, VI's, MIDI. etc.

If you are a sometime hobbyist, recording sometimes - I would still partition the HD between everyday use & recording & don't save music files to your computer's internal HD, or upgrade to the latest DAW version.

Your DAW site will have suggestions for maximizing your computer's performance, certain things to turn off or on. Pay attention to those suggestions.

I know it may seem extravagant, using two computers like that, but after my bad experiences & hearing what many have said similar to that, I find it much simpler just to keep my iMac for recording purposes only. Not a single crash in 13 months! Lots of that also has to do with the Apple/Apogee combo - very stable.

But check out DAW user forum's for specific stories about that. Hope that explanation helps.

alohachris

Last edited by alohachris; 12-21-2010 at 01:29 PM.
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  #18  
Old 12-20-2010, 08:01 PM
Sage97 Sage97 is offline
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Chris,

That actually explains quite a bit and also validates my concerns on using a unit both for recording and daily computer needs.

I still have a fully functional HP laptop for daily use (typing on it right now) so its really a non-issue but for the moment, I thought the iMac splurge would be justified by the "Plus I get a new computer" rationale.

Well I got the iMac and now I just need an interface and the Apogee seems to be taking first place.

Thanks very much for taking the time to explain. I have a feeling that I will have more questions on using the new system.

Aloha
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  #19  
Old 12-20-2010, 08:14 PM
moon moon is offline
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I'd agree there can be problems with updates going wrong. The best way to deal with that, IMO, is to "mirror" your OS partition ie keep a regularly updated carbon copy of your OS on a separate partition. If something goes wrong just boot from the mirror then figure out how to fix it at your leisure. It's a bit like doing a backup except that the backup is bootable. This lets you get back on your feet quickly and easily.

It helps if you separate out OS/apps and data onto separate partitions. For example, on linux, I'll have (at least) /home/ on its own partition (ideally a separate HDD) and then keep mirror (ie bootable) copies of /boot/ and "/".

With this sort of set up you can use the same machine for everything without worrying about messing up the system when you try out new software or update the OS.
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  #20  
Old 12-20-2010, 09:41 PM
Sage97 Sage97 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moon View Post
I'd agree there can be problems with updates going wrong. The best way to deal with that, IMO, is to "mirror" your OS partition ie keep a regularly updated carbon copy of your OS on a separate partition. If something goes wrong just boot from the mirror then figure out how to fix it at your leisure. It's a bit like doing a backup except that the backup is bootable. This lets you get back on your feet quickly and easily.

It helps if you separate out OS/apps and data onto separate partitions. For example, on linux, I'll have (at least) /home/ on its own partition (ideally a separate HDD) and then keep mirror (ie bootable) copies of /boot/ and "/".

With this sort of set up you can use the same machine for everything without worrying about messing up the system when you try out new software or update the OS.

Great idea moon.

Will have to keep this in mind.

Thanks very much.
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  #21  
Old 12-20-2010, 09:44 PM
theotigno theotigno is offline
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One great thing about having a Mac is that you can use Time Machine to go back and restore previous drivers, etc. I haven't had to do this, but in theory, this is what it is suppose to do.
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  #22  
Old 12-20-2010, 10:02 PM
Sage97 Sage97 is offline
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Theo,

Do you use the mac mini exclusively for recording? Do you track stereo with two mics (two tracks) and pan? Just trying to see how the mac mini handles two tracks at a time.
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  #23  
Old 12-20-2010, 11:23 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default Mini has no problem with two tracks

Aloha Sage,

The Mac Mini has no problem tracking two tracks at a time on an Apogee Duet. Works fine. Going with the Mini was my original strategy, until I tried out both units for recording. I went with the new iMac last year. No brainer - the differences & slight difference in price.

It's just that the Mac Mini has become so close to the iMac in price & you get so much more with the iMac than with the Mini. You will need 4 gigs of RAM anyway you slice it, even on a Mini. There goes your savings. And you get expandability & great visuals & so much more with an iMac. My iMac/Lofic Pro 9/ Apogee Duet & Ensemble/Glyph HD rig hardly takes any space up on my desk, if that's the issue, Sage.

But the Mini would work fine for simple acoustic recording, IMO.

A Hui Hou!

alohachris
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  #24  
Old 12-21-2010, 06:41 AM
theotigno theotigno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage97 View Post
Do you use the mac mini exclusively for recording? Do you track stereo with two mics (two tracks) and pan? Just trying to see how the mac mini handles two tracks at a time.
My main recording device is the Mac Mini, but I also use my HP laptop / USBPre to record when I am recording away from my house.

I normally record in stereo with two mics as you said. Actually, I have also done 2 stereo tracks (four total) with the Audiofire 4.

If you don't have an interface and you're just using the onboard converter, then the maximum you have is two tracks, but unless I did fine with just that. The only time I'd see needing more than 2 tracks is if you're recording drums.

So, I guess the short answer is I have had no problem with this setup in recording 1 (mono), 1 (stereo), 1 (mono) + 1 (stereo), & 2 (stereo).

Hope that helps.
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  #25  
Old 12-21-2010, 08:17 AM
Sage97 Sage97 is offline
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Guys,

Again, thanks very much.

Since I already ordered the iMAc, I'll try moon's suggestion below and partition. I've decided that the this unit will be primarily for recording as I still have a fully working laptop. It will be housed in my "recording room" so the only time I will need it for anything other than recording is to surf the web for tabs and videos for instructions and inspirations.

I may have purchased more than what I need with the iMAc so I'll see how that goes when it gets here and maybe talk to Apple reps about a possible exchange with a Mac mini+apogee duet....same cost for me and same profit for them.

Or I may end up liking it a lot and not worry about it.
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  #26  
Old 12-21-2010, 01:43 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default Sage - You'll love the iMac - Check out Apple's "One to One" program

Aloha Sage,

Because programs ALWAYS get more complex, even if you're recordings don't, I predict you'll stay with the iMac & not go backwards towards the Mini.

One simple reason: MEMORY. The Mini maxes out at 4 GB's RAM, but the iMac goes up to 8GB's of RAM - an important consideration for the future, Sage. You'll love the graphics, even for recording. The iMac is a great machine. That and a Duet AND/OR Ensemble & some quality monitors & headphnes & you're all set!

A new iMac with a Glyph ext. HD will do the trick nicely. If you're using the iMac for "recording only & storing in external HD's," there really is no need to partition the internal HD.

Again, do yourself a facor & check out Apple's 'One-to-One' Training program for getting a year's worth of DAW training at your local Apple store - as many sessions as you can sign up for - for only $99! Best $99 I have ever spent!

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

Last edited by alohachris; 12-21-2010 at 01:48 PM.
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  #27  
Old 12-22-2010, 07:58 AM
Sage97 Sage97 is offline
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The IMac came in and I swear they made a mistake. I know I got the 21.5 inch but this thing is at least 24 inches. Freakin huge.

The guy that is selling me his manufacturer's refurbed AKAI DPS 24 (mine that died was the DPS16) is now offering me a fantastic price and now I'm tempted to get both. I considered getting both but man that is way overkill for my hobby/needs.

Fran asked about what I would miss and I think the biggest one is working with real knobs and faders as opposed to working with a mouse. I guess I can get used to it.

First thing first, I will call Apple and see what their thoughts are on moon's HD partition suggestion. If that's cool, I will buy the Apogee Duet for overnight delivery. If not, not sure what I'll do.

Thanks all for the BIIIIG help.
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  #28  
Old 12-22-2010, 01:30 PM
moon moon is offline
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There are two reasons to use a mirror OS partition:

(1) OS updates or new software or drivers etc cause problems often enough and severe enough to be a nuisance.

(2) It's vital to have a working computer 24/7 - even if updates are a very rare problem it's still too much to be an acceptable risk.

I'm on Gentoo linux and with a cutting-edge, constantly-changing OS like Gentoo it's particularly important to be able to revert to a previous, working set up.

I also work as a webmaster and so I can't afford to be offline for a minute.

So, a mirror OS is absolutely essential for me. I can experiment with new software as much as I like, break my system as often as I like, but I never have any down time.

If you think either of the above reasons apply to you, I'd strongly recommend you do the same.

PS: I haven't used TimeMachine but, from what I gather, it doesn't specifically copy the OS & apps but rather everything: ie OS, apps, and data as well. That would mean you can't revert to a previous OS/apps set up without also losing recent data... I'd need to check that.

One of the fundamental things with any computer is to separate OS/apps from data. They must be on separate backup/restore schedules. This, incidentally, can be good for performance too. If OS/apps are on one HDD and data on another, disk read/writes won't trip each other up. Add in a third HDD for a scratch/backups disk and that's my standard set up.

Last edited by moon; 12-22-2010 at 01:48 PM.
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  #29  
Old 12-23-2010, 08:37 PM
Sage97 Sage97 is offline
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I've been playing around with my new system the last two days. I don't think I will need the FMR products. The apogee pre-amps are more than sufficient. I do have to get used to working around with a mouse and keyboards. I kinda miss real faders and knobs but man, this lowly Garageband can do a lot more things than I expected.

A little downside is that the recordings are so clean. I kinda like the noise in the analog.

Thanks to all who steered me in this direction. I may soon put my beloved FMR products on eBay making this initial investment more palatable.
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