Rainsong shorty neck angle question - Page 3

SpruceTop · #31 01-01-2016, 10:14 AM

Ashvin Kumar, head of RainSong Guitars, has many times visited this Carbon Fiber section of Acoustic Guitar Forum. I'd suggest calling RainSong or sending another e-mail to let them know that a serious issue is being discussed on AGF about one of their guitars. This may bring Ashvin on to explain what he thinks could be the problem with your guitar and may elicit further action on his behalf regarding your guitar.

P.S. A discussion on MacNichol Guitars & Mandolins now defunct Carbon Guitar Forum got Composite Acoustics to check their action height and neck relief before sending their guitars out to dealers. They included a card with each guitar stating these values and signed by the QC person. Grass roots discussions can and do get the attention of makers!

#32 01-01-2016, 11:05 AM

Perhaps the best resolution might be to just send the guitar to Ashvin? I've never had cause to take such an action with a guitar, but I have done that with a vehicle--left it at the lot and asked them to call me if and when they ever figured out what was wrong. Just a thought.

Jmann · #33 01-01-2016, 12:29 PM

I sent an email to rainsong describing the problem, giving the serial number, admitting I was not the original owner and stating I was not looking for warranty coverage and was willing to pay to have the guitar fixed. I asked for help in how to do that either through them or a luthier they recomended to do the work. I recieved this back and nothing more.

As I stated in earlier posts Im not looking for a free fix. I feel it is my fault for not doing my due dilligence and researching these more closely before buying one site unseen. I bought into the buzz on the web talking this brand up and let down my guard. I didnt ask questions i normally would have with a wooden guitar and thats my fault. I also bought used and rainsong clearly states unless your first owner you are not covered under warranty. Aparrently you are not covered under customer service support either, but I have bought many wonderful guitars second hand sight unseen and have been fortunate on all but this one. If you play the used guitar internet game long enough your going to get a lemon. I am still way ahead and have many wonderful guitars I would not have otherwise, so I can toss this one in the trash and still be ahead as far as i am concerned.
I am seriously considering trying to fix it myself. If I destroy it, its no big loss. I would like to know if anyone has any knowledge of how the studs are attached into the neck. They appear to have allen heads in the end of them but are they also chemically bonded into the neck or just threaded in? Im thinking if I remove the nuts and washers holding the neck, then pull the studs from inside the body, i could sand the heel where it meets the body without removing the fingerboard from the guitar top. That would allow the neck to re attach at the proper angle. What do you guys think?

SpruceTop · #34 01-01-2016, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmann

I sent an email to rainsong describing the problem, giving the serial number, admitting I was not the original owner and stating I was not looking for warranty coverage and was willing to pay to have the guitar fixed. I asked for help in how to do that either through them or a luthier they recomended to do the work. I recieved this back and nothing more.

As I stated in earlier posts Im not looking for a free fix. I feel it is my fault for not doing my due dilligence and researching these more closely before buying one site unseen. I bought into the buzz on the web talking this brand up and let down my guard. I didnt ask questions i normally would have with a wooden guitar and thats my fault. I also bought used and rainsong clearly states unless your first owner you are not covered under warranty. Aparrently you are not covered under customer service support either, but I have bought many wonderful guitars second hand sight unseen and have been fortunate on all but this one. If you play the used guitar internet game long enough your going to get a lemon. I am still way ahead and have many wonderful guitars I would not have otherwise, so I can toss this one in the trash and still be ahead as far as i am concerned.
I am seriously considering trying to fix it myself. If I destroy it, its no big loss. I would like to know if anyone has any knowledge of how the studs are attached into the neck. They appear to have allen heads in the end of them but are they also chemically bonded into the neck or just threaded in? Im thinking if I remove the nuts and washers holding the neck, then pull the studs from inside the body, i could sand the heel where it meets the body without removing the fingerboard from the guitar top. That would allow the neck to re attach at the proper angle. What do you guys think?

Given the Holiday Season, perhaps RainSong is on vacation, as is Taylor Guitars? Did you call the toll-free phone number? At this point, I wouldn't touch the guitar if you're thinking of trying to fix it yourself. Let RainSong respond to your e-mail and maybe a phone call. I've found RainSong Customer Service to be responsive to my concerns. I don't see why they wouldn't respond to your messages even though you're not the original owner. I hope you're able to resolve your concern soon.

sirwhale · #35 01-01-2016, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

On the positive side I think you can bring the saddle down more. If your at 7/64s you are only 1/64 from normal. Rainsong has a very flat neck radius. That saddle has a lot of fall off after the High E. (Someone may have done a poor job sanding it down?). Break angle is really not that important as people believe, been discussed allot on the forum. You might want to get a new Tusq saddle and try again?

I believe Rainsong uses the same saddle as Taylor guitars, you can get the number off their website below. You could also try a saddle with a longer radius. I believe Rainsong uses a Tusq saddle with a radius of 16". Tusq does sell a radius of 20 I believe, which matches the 20" radius of your Rainsong neck. You can email Graphtech the maker of the saddles Rainsong uses and their support area is very helpful. Saddles are cheap and might be worth you experimenting before you go further?

http://graphtech.com

This is where I would begin.

And if you were to want more break angle, to lower the saddle even further, then you could easily "ramp" the bridge with some needle files. This way, you could get as low as you possibly can.

Jmann · #36 01-01-2016, 05:46 PM

Ok, i fixed it.

Im not a patient person and a loose end like this nags me to no end.

I pulled the strings from the guitar. Went inside and removed the nuts that hold the neck on and the 4 washers. Then i tried to remove the studs from the neck and to my amazement they were finger tight. Seems there are threaded inserts imbeded into the neck which receive these.

Once the studs were removed i took some cloth backed 400 grit sandpaper and placed strips of it between the body and the heel of the neck with the abrasive side facing the neck. I repeatedly pulled it through removing material from the area of the heel that contacts the body. I did this for about an hour.
After that I reattached the studs and bolts which secure the neck and strung to tension at standard pitch using light (.12) strings.

Now the straightedge hits the bridge just below the top and the action is much more playable. With the neck set for an extremely minimal relief the action measures 4/64 at the low e and 2.5/64 at the high e at the 12th fret. No buzzing anywhere on the neck.

I could continue and get it to where the straightedge hits just on top of the bridge which would be correct, however, since that would require a new saddle and these things are not supposed to move once set, i am content with this.

I appreciate everyones advice and interest and am looking forward to playing this thing a little and seeing how it behaves.

I snapped a few pics but neglected to take any of the actual sanding as i didnt have any free hands.

This is looking inside after i removed the hardware.

This is the hardware

This is where the sandpaper was inserted to remove material from the heel.

Doubleneck · #37 01-01-2016, 06:02 PM

Awesome, a man of action! Wow that is a very low action! you may still want to replace that saddle sometime. I think you did prove that quality control messed up on this one. But your work seems perfect. Congratulations

Jmann · #38 01-01-2016, 06:06 PM

I figure i will sometime just to get a little more break angle. When i do i will sand the heel again to get it completely in spec and then fit the new saddle to the correct height. I appreciate all your advise on this!

Captain Jim · #39 01-01-2016, 09:37 PM

Great that you have the ability (and stones) to tear into it. Sounds like it was a relatively easy fix once you had it apart. Glad to hear that.

Having been a RainSong (Shorty) owner for 2 1/2 years, I would imagine RainSong (as has been mentioned) is closed for the holidays. I have had contact with RainSong twice (never a problem with the guitar) and they were very helpful and responsive.

Give them the benefit of the doubt for the lack of response, and good on you for taking care of the problem. Hope you are now able to enjoy the guitar.

Best wishes,
Jim

Finger Stylish · #40 01-02-2016, 02:55 AM

Very nice, and as Jim Stated, (takes stones) or perhaps the determination of a real BoyScout.(never give up attitude)

I'm with Steve, a new saddle will likely be in your future.

FWIW; I have known several guitars that have had saddle work done to them before the neck was properly adjust to the "starting point" which is straight 1-12 and that straight line continuing to the top of the bridge. Like I stated, "that's the good starting point. When set in this manner, fall a-way from 13-22 is normal / excepted. Tweaking the relief after that is generally because of string tension changes. Tuning down or up etc...
It looks to me, that the previous owner started with the saddle, not knowing, the neck wasn't secured properly. What a bonehead factory flub that is.

Jmann, time to Jamm!

Well done!

Doubleneck · #41 01-02-2016, 06:50 AM

Now after all of this journey, Rainsong could actually use this as a positive point about their guitars. Their necks can be reset if needed!. I think they are the only builder of CF guitars that can say that.

Finger Stylish · #42 01-02-2016, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

Now after all of this journey, Rainsong could actually use this as a positive point about their guitars. Their necks can be reset if needed!. I think they are the only builder of CF guitars that can say that.

It actually trigger my interest in checking the tension on the nuts in my DR1000.
I have gotten a strange howel on occasion in open A. I kind thought it was the electronic barndoor thing causing sympathy moans.
It's always a learning journey with acoustic boxes.

sirwhale · #43 01-02-2016, 04:09 PM

I'm seriously impressed with how well this turned out. I have been known to be impatient, like you, with my own DIY fixes... and to completely regret it afterwards. Good work man.

Jmann · #44 01-02-2016, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finger Stylish

It actually trigger my interest in checking the tension on the nuts in my DR1000.
I have gotten a strange howel on occasion in open A. I kind thought it was the electronic barndoor thing causing sympathy moans.
It's always a learning journey with acoustic boxes.

I was hoping the nuts were lose on mine because of the gap between the neck and body, but no such luck. That would have been a really easy fix.

Jmann · #45 01-02-2016, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirwhale

I'm seriously impressed with how well this turned out. I have been known to be impatient, like you, with my own DIY fixes... and to completely regret it afterwards. Good work man.

Thanks, a good friend of mine who is a machinist once told me anything put together by man can be taken apart by man. the amount of damage done during the task decreases significantly for each minute spent studying the problem before starting. I think he is correct.