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Old 12-27-2019, 08:26 AM
Stevied63 Stevied63 is offline
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Default Luthiers - how many hours?

Something Bruce Sexauer recently mentioned in his thread inspired this post. Specifically, the question is, on average, how many hours do you have in a typical guitar build? Let’s not count guitars with extensive inlays; let’s not count finishing time that is done by someone else; but let’s count time spent designing the guitar, choosing woods, interacting with the customer. I’m really curious to see the responses - although perhaps it may be a small sample size, I wonder if everyone will be in a tight range?

Ok - so the question is for luthiers - average hours you put into a typical build, start to finish?

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Old 12-27-2019, 08:58 AM
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The truth of the matter is that so far I have put in about 19 years into building a guitar

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Old 12-27-2019, 09:07 AM
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This may help them think about your question.

I believe that you are interested in the items that are listed in bold text. Many luthiers do their own finishing so those that do will spend significantly more time building their instruments. Those who don’t spend time shipping to finishers and paying invoices.

Before:
  • Investing in tools, shop, fixtures, supplies, insurance
  • Investing in a wood locker of seasoned premium tonewoods
  • General marketing costs of website, luthier exhibitions, spec. guitars, general inquiries, deposit invoicing
  • Client discussions regarding guitar choices, size, features, tonewoods, start of build invoicing etc.
During:
  • Building the instrument(including finishing if done by artisan) and set up
  • Client correspondence during build updating on status and decisions along the way
  • Third party correspondence sometimes for inlays, tuners and cases
  • Completion invoicing
After:
  • Preparing the guitar for shipment and shipping it
  • Client correspondence
  • Maintenance, warranty service as needed
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Old 12-27-2019, 09:15 AM
Stevied63 Stevied63 is offline
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Yes, although that implies a precision that I doubt people track. I was inspired to the question by Bruce Sexauer posting that he had about 110 hours in a recent build, not counting the finishing which was done by someone else.

Mark - yes! I agree, a simple counting of hours doesn’t convey the years of experience that is embodied in each instrument. I was just curious how long the crafting actually takes.
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Old 12-27-2019, 09:22 AM
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I think Bruce who does his own finishing in oil varnish (which is time consuming) was estimating including finishing.... I do think Mark Hatcher’s answer was best...

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Originally Posted by Stevied63 View Post
Yes, although that implies a precision that I doubt people track. I was inspired to the question by Bruce Sexauer posting that he had about 110 hours in a recent build, not counting the finishing which was done by someone else.

Mark - yes! I agree, a simple counting of hours doesn’t convey the years of experience that is embodied in each instrument. I was just curious how long the crafting actually takes.
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Old 12-27-2019, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7 View Post
I think Bruce who does his own finishing in oil varnish (which is time consuming) was estimating including finishing.... I do think Mark Hatcher’s answer was best...
I disagree. If I ask my 72 year old barber who's been cutting hair for 49 years how long it'll take for a haircut, 49 years shouldn't be his answer.

On the other hand, I understand why someone may not want to say how long. But then they could say that.
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Old 12-27-2019, 10:57 AM
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52 years, in my case, is clever but not very informative, and not what the OP asked. Those are not billable years! It is meaningful none the less.

I think I said the current guitar looked like it would come up around 100 hours, but of course I am guessing. If we are going to include customer relations, it will be a lot more as I am taking it to BIGer and there is no guarantee it will sell there. I consider a show like BIGer to be advertising costs, and I do not pin such expenses to specific guitars, but rather include them in my cost of living.

I can build a simply appointed guitar (“WRX” in my nomenclature) in about 75 hours, including finish, but having nothing to do with customer relations. A commissioned guitar and an interactive customer can easily go north of 150 hours. I do not generally track time in a given guitar, but instead stick to my base price plus bells and whistles, a system I worked out so that can stay safely ahead of my expected ongoing expenses. I know what it costs me to live for a month, and each guitar HAS to cover that plus a bit, as I make an average of 10 guitars a year, and there are 12 months to get through.
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Old 12-27-2019, 11:34 AM
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For me, A simple build is about 40 active hours (not counting glue drying, finish curing, emails, etc). A custom build is between 100-200 hours depending on the level of detail.
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Old 12-30-2019, 02:20 AM
Codfather Codfather is offline
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Default Build time

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaE View Post
For me, A simple build is about 40 active hours (not counting glue drying, finish curing, emails, etc). A custom build is between 100-200 hours depending on the level of detail.
Are you fully jiged out(meaning more than 12 jigs or fixtures in your shop)and is there any manufacturing of parts done by cnc or batches(multiple parts at once)?
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Old 12-30-2019, 03:06 AM
woodbox woodbox is offline
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Default I hope this helps

Hope you don’t mind if I chime in here.
I do not call myself a luthier, but I built a guitar and I kept a journal, including hours.
About 300 hrs went into it, with about 25 into the finish, which was tedious.

I had a mentor, someone who has built about 50 guitars over about 25 yrs, and although he has three body molds.. one for each model he makes.. he has very few jigs.
Each guitar is a one of a kind, hand made creation.

The next one will go faster and smoother, and it will be better .. I hope.

One more point:
The component that was the biggest consumer of hours was the top.
Getting the bracing glued into place and shaving/carving them down was laborious, and clearly the single most time consuming aspect of the project.
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Old 12-30-2019, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runamuck View Post
I disagree. If I ask my 72 year old barber who's been cutting hair for 49 years how long it'll take for a haircut, 49 years shouldn't be his answer.

On the other hand, I understand why someone may not want to say how long. But then they could say that.
Fair enough...

A builder’s years at the bench and market acceptance of their work more indirectly influence their hourly rate (via instrument price) and not how long it takes them to make an instrument. That said, years at the bench tends to drive efficiency in operations (e.g. building #300 will take less time than #30).
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Old 12-30-2019, 07:00 AM
CaE CaE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevied63 View Post
Yes, although that implies a precision that I doubt people track. I was inspired to the question by Bruce Sexauer posting that he had about 110 hours in a recent build, not counting the finishing which was done by someone else.

Mark - yes! I agree, a simple counting of hours doesn’t convey the years of experience that is embodied in each instrument. I was just curious how long the crafting actually takes.
Fully tooled/jigged. Everything is one-off and done by hand (except if it's a fan fret. I have those done on a CNC).

40 hours doesn't take into account glue dry times or finish curing. That would easily make it closer to 100+ hours. But in all honesty, it's a minimum of 1 month if done full time. Or 2-3 months + if done at part-time.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:38 AM
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I try to get it done in 60 hours and it usually takes more. That includes finishing since I do it myself. But I have never considered recording the time it takes for phone calls and emails. I suspect that could add up though. Probably another ten hours for that.

I like to do things in batches too. For example if I set my resaw up then I will cut at least ten back and side sets, usually more. I'll make several neck blanks at a time so I can just reach in a bin and grab them. I will have tops joined and waiting to be used, and so on. Of course that's all billable hours but helps speed up the building process.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:44 AM
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A well known builder recently told me, he invests 40 to 60 hours into the average guitar. More or less depending on detail work.
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:14 AM
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In my first twenty or so years of Lutherie I was much quicker than subsequently. Guitars then took 40 or 50 hours including finish. I was impatient to finish them. It now takes me 2 to 3 times as long because my attention to detail is vastly greater.
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