out of tune with capo

[jaybones]

I always position my capo as close to the fret as I can, and always check the tuning after putting it on.

As others have said the higher action on the Martin must have the capo pulling the strings out of tune.

[Russ C]

Yes, as has been said - if you place the capo with the leading edge about mid point on your fret you'll notice that your capo related intonation issues have left because it isn't bending your strings down to the fretboard. At least that'll tell you something you need to know.
And as has also been said, it'll get in the way of your fretting hand and be a nuisance .. and it takes more care to put it there.
My compromise (as with so much of life) is to place it near to as I described and use capos that are tension adjustable. Unfortunately they're easier to accidentally move while you're playing which is also a nuisance - but it won't move forward and foul up your sound.
.. a suggestion anyway.

[mustachio]

FWIW, I switched from Keysers years ago and have been through a lot of brands.
I now use the Paige capos. They’re narrow and do not get in the way of your fretting hand, has narrower rubber that makes contact with the strings (in my opinion the bigger surface area of most capos does actually dampen the strings), they easily store behind the nut when not in use (nothing more amateur than a capo clamped on the headstock), made of metal, and most importantly has equal pressure exerted on all strings. So, it won’t matter where you place the capo itself in relation to the fret. Look into them. Paige capos. They’re great. No affiliation. Just a happy user.

[Daniel Grenier]

Get a G7th Heritage.

Problem solved (assuming nut, saddle, frets, neck are properly set).

[Buc-a-Roo]

Originally Posted by TBman

Somewhere in a galaxy far far away there is a capo that doesn't cause a guitar to go out of tune. Not here.

Not true. I use a capo on nearly every song I play, from the first fret to the fifth, and never have to retune regardless of which fret it's on or how many times it is moved. A proper setup and a good capo are essential for this. Capo of choice: I alternate between a Kat Eyz and an Elliot, both yoke-style devices that do not change the tuning when properly tensioned.

[musicman1951]

My first thought from the provided information is that you would probably benefit from a good set-up. 12's feeling like heavy strings seems like the nut might need work.

There are lots of capos out there. I use an Elliott and have no intonation problems, but it's quite expensive. I have made Kyser capos behave better by bending the metal so there is less pressure.

Yolk type capos with adjustment screws are probably the best for intonation. A Shubb with properly adjusted tension gets pretty close at a very reasonable price.

But the fact that the problems are only with this guitar kind of screams set-up issues.

[Goodallboy]

Originally Posted by Buc-a-Roo

Not true. I use a capo on nearly every song I play, from the first fret to the fifth, and never have to retune regardless of which fret it's on or how many times it is moved. A proper setup and a good capo are essential for this. Capo of choice: I alternate between a Kat Eyz and an Elliot, both yoke-style devices that do not change the tuning when properly tensioned.

Never having to retune doesn't mean you're not out of tune.


I've owned numerous brands and models of acoustic guitars and not one of them would be in "perfect" tuning after applying a capo. That is a guitar issue that is pretty much universal. Like you, I go ahead and don't retune many times but it's not because I believe they're all perfectly in tune.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Buc-a-Roo

Not true. I use a capo on nearly every song I play, from the first fret to the fifth, and never have to retune regardless of which fret it's on or how many times it is moved. A proper setup and a good capo are essential for this. Capo of choice: I alternate between a Kat Eyz and an Elliot, both yoke-style devices that do not change the tuning when properly tensioned.

Hogwash, lol. I have 4 guitars with excellent set ups and I always have retune, Get off my lawn too

Seriously though I'm wondering if I'm tightening the capo too much. I have a yoke style also (Paige Clik). I'm going to experiment with tension and placement, thanks.

[arewolfe]

In my experience I cannot get a capo'd guitar to sound good unless I tune the guitar "to the capo"

In other words, if the capo is on the 2nd fret, my ears demand that I re-tune to F#, B, E, A, C#, F# (strings 6 through 1) or else it sounds like junk.

It takes time, which can be problematic if you're performing live, but it sure makes a world of difference in the sound.

[ljguitar]

Hi es

Proper placement close to the leading fret, a well fitted capo, and just enough pressure to seal the strings against the leading fret wire will get it about as close as one can. Well…without retuning.




My guitars are all properly setup, I'm careful with placement…and I still always retune after capoing (and I have great capos).

I also place my own capos at an angle so the fret's leading edge is at the 6th string, and the capo angles so the treble end is capoed about ¼ - ⅓ into the fret. I learned the technique from Franco Morone (first shot below) who capos up and down the neck throughout his concerts with very little re-tuning. It works well with 2 of my guitars, but not the other.





Hope this adds to the discussion…

[Wade Hampton]

Larry wrote:

Originally Posted by ljguitar

I also place my own capos at an angle so the fret's leading edge is at the 6th string, and the capo angles so the treble end is capoed about ¼ - ⅓ into the fret. I learned the technique from Franco Morone (first shot below) who capos up and down the neck throughout his concerts with very little re-tuning. It works well with 2 of my guitars, but not the other.





Hope this adds to the discussion…

Interesting technique, Larry, and one that I've never heard of or knowingly seen before. I'll have to experiment with that. Thanks for the pointer.

The only personal observation that I'll add to this discussion is that I have found that virtually ALL capos have a bit of a learning curve to them before you can automatically get the best results from them. I've even learned how to get the best results from Kyser capos, but it took both thought and practice before I knew how to nudge it in just right to minimize the tuning problems.

I learned how to do that out of self-defense! I don't own any Kyser capos myself, never have liked them, but there have been many occasions when I've been traveling and had neither guitar nor capo with me, so I was using someone else's. Sometimes the capos have been Kysers.

The larger point I'm trying to make is that many people never think about how to optimize their capo technique, but using capos properly does take a bit of technique and practice to get them snugged in perfectly. When different brands are mechanically different from each other, they require slightly different approaches when you're putting them in place.

I only recently learned how to use my Shubb Fine Tune properly, and it was because of a post here on this forum that I realized what I was doing wrong with it. So old dogs CAN learn new tricks!

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Bob from Brooklyn]

They're all different. My 00015sm requires more tweaking than my D18.

[Judson]

If I put the capo on and then tune, the only time I have a problem after that is when I take the capo completely off for a song before putting it back on.

After initially getting in tune with the capo installed, just moving the capo from fret to fret is not a problem (for me) ...

.

[RogerPease]

Some time ago someone posted a video here of Tommy E. discussing how to use
capos. As I recall, in it he says he places it a close to the fret as possible and then
gives the strings a thump with the heel of his hand down by the sound hole to
equalize the tension above and below the capo and bring it back into tune.

For me it seemed to work pretty well, but I don't use a capo that much.
(Maybe someone here has the link at hand. Confess I was lazy and didn't do
the search.) :-P

_Roger

[Silly Moustache]

This is all about simple geomeery and tension.

If you tune all your strings open at the nut - that doesn't necessarily mean all the notes you fret on that string will also be in tune.

the note will be sharpened depending on how hard you press the string behind the fret, and, of course, how high the fret is.

Same thing with your capo.if it draws each string tightly behind the fret, it will sharpen it.

My modest method is to tune the strings not at the nut but the notes of my root chord, e'g, If I playing in the key of G then I tune the 1st to the 3rd fretG the 2nd to the 3rd fret D , third and fourth strings open (G and D, the 5th to 2nd fret B, and the 6th to 3rd fret G.

I've found that this works pretty well if I'm playing from a C shape chord as well, not so good for an E shape.

I use basic Shubbs on all guitars, each adjusted to that guitar's neck, and also on my two 12 strings (appropriate 12 str. capos of course).
Each guitar also has a planet waves miniclip tuner on the headstock.

If I'm playing uncapoed on song no.1 and E capo IV on song no.2 , then I expect to check and adjust tuning ... that's what the applause and your spoken intro is for.