NGD: McPherson Sable: First Carbon Fiber

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

I like that! When you buy a McPherson (or really from any maker), you should get a button to wear that says "I'm carbonated!".

Tony

Thanks, Tony! "Carbonated" just seemed a natural, "organic" extension of carbon guitars.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Thanks, Tony! "Carbonated" just seemed a natural, "organic" extension of carbon guitars.

Thanks, and great term! I think Dbone's idea of T-shirts is even better than the buttons. A group T-shirt buy would be cool.

Tony

[GuitarDoc]

Originally Posted by kramster

Your opinion is pretty accurate... I think they sound great ... even my plain ole black one... which sounds as good as the gold ones I have played... the golded up Touring I have is one great sounding critter too of course. Fun stuff.

That’s big praise coming from you. Can you compare it to the ‘vintage’ CA’s. I still pine for that 12 you had.

[kramster]

Originally Posted by GuitarDoc

Can you compare it to the ‘vintage’ CA’s. I still pine for that 12 you had.

I still really like my OX a lot, it's the one currently sitting out by the baby grand real handy like. My friend still gas the 12 string, I should go play it again soon. Also it has been awhile since I had the other full size CAs, so cant really do much comparing.

[steelvibe]

If CA and McPherson have the "woodiest" tones, makes me wonder if my preferences for best tone are related to those CF guitars that have bracing. Not because they need it but because they better emulate what my ears are so used to hearing--the way the soundboard reacts to the player? Also the fact that McPherson uses a different material mixed in with the CF for their back and sides.

[tbeltrans]

Regarding the "woodiest" tone, I simply don't think of carbon fiber as sounding like wood. It has its own sound, though just as with wood guitars, each maker seems to go for a different tone with their instruments.

In the piano world forums, people are always wanting the digital piano that is most like an acoustic piano and are always going around and around about that. I am satisfied with my digital piano because I knew from the outset that it was digital and not acoustic. There is a difference.

I can't say there will ALWAYS be a difference because someday there might well be "disruptive" technology that comes along and shakes the whole thing up. But until then, I can be satisfied with what I have because I don't expect it to be anything else.

Tony

[Dbone]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Regarding the "woodiest" tone, I simply don't think of carbon fiber as sounding like wood. It has its own sound, though just as with wood guitars, each maker seems to go for a different tone with their instruments.

In the piano world forums, people are always wanting the digital piano that is most like an acoustic piano and are always going around and around about that. I am satisfied with my digital piano because I knew from the outset that it was digital and not acoustic. There is a difference.

I can't say there will ALWAYS be a difference because someday there might well be "disruptive" technology that comes along and shakes the whole thing up. But until then, I can be satisfied with what I have because I don't expect it to be anything else.

Tony

We’ve got a Roland LX-17 digital piano. It sounds like a real piano to me. My wife and daughter play. I do not. They absolutely love the thing.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Dbone

We’ve got a Roland LX-17 digital piano. It sounds like a real piano to me. My wife and daughter play. I do not. They absolutely love the thing.

Mine is the Roland V-Grand and it sounds good, but I can definitely hear things in a real piano that I don't hear digitally. I believe your Roland also uses their modelling technology. Mine is completely modelled, but I don't know whether the newer models are completely modelled or use a combination of modelling and sampling, which they started calling their "Supernatural" sound.

The main thing I was interested in when I got mine was that the pedalling act like a real piano, and mine does. With a real piano, you can get a mess real quick if you don't use the sustain pedal properly, just like a real piano. At the time I bought mine, all the other digital pianos I tried were quite forgiving in that area, so you wouldn't really know if you were using proper technique that translated readily to a real piano or not. It was a concert classical pianist that advised me to get the V-Grand. I know that Lady Gaga and David Benoit have them also, as does the Lincoln Center. So I know that model did attract discerning players. My model is not made anymore and apparently they have a new model on the way to take its place.

If I were buying today, I would most likely get the LX-17. It is smaller, an upright cabinet, where mine is a baby grand cabinet with a 240W 4 channel
and multi-speaker sound system spread throughout the piano. I don't need all that in a condo. As I recall the LX-17 sounded quite good when I tried one. It came along some years after my V-Grand and showed obvious signs of the trickle-down of the V-Grand technology into their other products. The V-Grand is the most expensive piano Roland has offered, quite a step up from their V-Piano.

The best way I can describe the V-Grand is that it is like those over the top concept cars that you sometimes see at auto shows, where the manufacturer builds it because they can and cost is no issue. I will have mine for the rest of my life unless it breaks and can't be fixed.

Tony

[steelvibe]

I got to play a Sable today and confirm what my ears told me from the videos. A wonderful blending of the clarity of CF with the traditional sound of a braced wooden guitar. I did not play it plugged in. This particular guitar had a honeycomb top but not the gold trim deluxe "Cadillac Edition".

It is a wonderful guitar in all respects but different. I was shocked at how heavy it is, it is at least 6 lbs, and while lighter than a full size wood guitar, still heavy. It is actually slightly heavier than my OF660 which I found surprising. It felt as if most of the weight is in the neck, which was also a bit of an anomaly in feel. It has a raw satin feel and very close to a Taylor profile. I didn't dislike it but definitely prefer the necks of both my current guitars as they are a bit fuller. It looked very cool though, reminiscent of black suede

The back and sides were another surprise. The texture is nearly like course sandpaper; a different feel but was nice to feel that guitar sit on my lap so snugly- no sliding around there! I had no issues with comfort at all with my arm draped over the lower bout, a width that was perfect as I perched on a 24" wood stool. The edges on the back are also slightly chamfered, not as rounded as a RainSong, but it was a welcome feature.

It was a bit quieter than I expected it to be, but I also play with fingers to be fair. It wasn't compressed like my Journey but...maybe it's a little louder out front? Tonally I was floored and it was super fun to get a test drive. I'll go back and try the Touring next, and will probably play the Sable some more. Goodness it sounds fantastic!

Dave, you started this whole thread- hope you come back and post your thoughts as a new carbonite. You should be very happy- i know I would be.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

I got to play a Sable today and confirm what my ears told me from the videos. A wonderful blending of the clarity of CF with the traditional sound of a braced wooden guitar. I did not play it plugged in. This particular guitar had a honeycomb top but not the gold trim deluxe "Cadillac Edition".

It is a wonderful guitar in all respects but different. I was shocked at how heavy it is, it is at least 6 lbs, and while lighter than a full size wood guitar, still heavy. It is actually slightly heavier than my OF660 which I found surprising. It felt as if most of the weight is in the neck, which was also a bit of an anomaly in feel. It has a raw satin feel and very close to a Taylor profile. I didn't dislike it but definitely prefer the necks of both my current guitars as they are a bit fuller. It looked very cool though, reminiscent of black suede

The back and sides were another surprise. The texture is nearly like course sandpaper; a different feel but was nice to feel that guitar sit on my lap so snugly- no sliding around there! I had no issues with comfort at all with my arm draped over the lower bout, a width that was perfect as I perched on a 24" wood stool. The edges on the back are also slightly chamfered, not as rounded as a RainSong, but it was a welcome feature.

It was a bit quieter than I expected it to be, but I also play with fingers to be fair. It wasn't compressed like my Journey but...maybe it's a little louder out front? Tonally I was floored and it was super fun to get a test drive. I'll go back and try the Touring next, and will probably play the Sable some more. Goodness it sounds fantastic!

Dave, you started this whole thread- hope you come back and post your thoughts as a new carbonite. You should be very happy- i know I would be.

My suggestion, based on personal experience, is that you get BOTH the Sable and the Touring, both honeycomb and consider the gold package optional.

They are both great guitars, so you can't go wrong. Maybe you can cut a package deal.

We do our best around here to enable.

Tony

[byudzai]

I have a Sable and adore it. It was my first CF guitar.

I do admit that it's gotten relegated to the closet since the Emerald X30 joined the herd.

Sometimes I crave a smaller, more intimate guitar with that extra level of refinement and that sleek James Bond flair, and I reach for the Sable.

My biggest grudge against it is that it sounds thin against the X30.

[L3stat]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

You just described my Sable. Good choice!

Tony

Hi Tony,

Sorry for the thread hijack but I'm keen to get on the Sable bandwagon as well. Does the lack of a truss rod worry you? I watched McP's factory tour videos and assuming the CF line gets the same treatment, the necks certainly look rock solid.

Have you tried switching to light gauge strings on yours (I know they come with mediums as a factory recommendation)? Does the action change as a result (implying the neck does shift under tension)? Does the tone and feel change as well?

Any thoughts on the Evo gold frets? Stainless steel was a big draw for me on the Emeralds, and all my other guitars have it. What's your sense around the hardness, durability, corrosion resistance etc?

Thanks!

- Luke

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by L3stat

Hi Tony,

Sorry for the thread hijack but I'm keen to get on the Sable bandwagon as well. Does the lack of a truss rod worry you? I watched McP's factory tour videos and assuming the CF line gets the same treatment, the necks certainly look rock solid.

Have you tried switching to light gauge strings on yours (I know they come with mediums as a factory recommendation)? Does the action change as a result (implying the neck does shift under tension)? Does the tone and feel change as well?

Any thoughts on the Evo gold frets? Stainless steel was a big draw for me on the Emeralds, and all my other guitars have it. What's your sense around the hardness, durability, corrosion resistance etc?

Thanks!

- Luke

I am not a guitar builder or repair person, so I can only repeat what I have read on some of your questions. I use Elixir HD Light strings:

https://www.stringsandbeyond.com/elhdacst.html

These are a combination of light gauge bass strings and medium gauge higher strings. They are apparently what Taylor now ships on their guitars and I like them.

The EVO frets are said to be almost as tough as stainless steel, so I have non long term concerns.

McPherson necks are known to be very stable. You can read about them on their site. I saw a video about this on youtube and one of the guys from McPherson was asked about the truss rod. The Sable has one and it is hard steel so I doubt the neck will shift. I have not experienced any neck shift. My Sable is just like a well set up Taylor. I own a couple of high end Taylors and this has been my experience.

In my experience, having owned at one time a McPherson wood guitar, and now the Sable and Touring, the quality is excellent and they pay attention to the little details that I often see overlooked in some other maker's guitars - the little fit and finish things that make for a perfectly built instrument.

Since I have yet to play one of the newer Emerald guitars, I can't give my opinion of any comparison. I am happy with my McPhersons and therefore am no longer in the market for more guitars.

Tony

[Dbone]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

I am not a guitar builder or repair person, so I can only repeat what I have read on some of your questions. I use Elixir HD Light strings:

https://www.stringsandbeyond.com/elhdacst.html

These are a combination of light gauge bass strings and medium gauge higher strings. They are apparently what Taylor now ships on their guitars and I like them.

The EVO frets are said to be almost as tough as stainless steel, so I have non long term concerns.

McPherson necks are known to be very stable. You can read about them on their site. I saw a video about this on youtube and one of the guys from McPherson was asked about the truss rod. The Sable has one and it is hard steel so I doubt the neck will shift. I have not experienced any neck shift. My Sable is just like a well set up Taylor. I own a couple of high end Taylors and this has been my experience.

In my experience, having owned at one time a McPherson wood guitar, and now the Sable and Touring, the quality is excellent and they pay attention to the little details that I often see overlooked in some other maker's guitars - the little fit and finish things that make for a perfectly built instrument.

Since I have yet to play one of the newer Emerald guitars, I can't give my opinion of any comparison. I am happy with my McPhersons and therefore am no longer in the market for more guitars.

Tony

Their carbon necks have twice the rigidity of steel. Not seeing how that will move. The Rainsongs have a rod, but only for preference considerations. None of these carbon necks should move,

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Dbone

Their carbon necks have twice the rigidity of steel. Not seeing how that will move. The Rainsongs have a rod, but only for preference considerations. None of these carbon necks should move,

That is also good to know. In the video I mentioned (it was a link from another recent thread here that took place at the 2018 NAMM), Larry from McPherson said that they have the truss rod I mentioned. However, that may well be overkill since the McPherson is all carbon fiber except of course the strings, frets, tuners, saddle, nut, and strings. So, yes, the neck is carbon fiber.

Anyway, McPherson is very careful about their quality and it shows in everything I have seen from them. I read here about quibbles with certain quality aspects of various makers' products from time to time, but never as a trend with any particular maker. I doubt anyone will see that about McPherson.

Whether a McPherson is right for a given player can only be determined by that player. I recall reading an article about the downside of so many choices. It said that when you have several choices, you will wonder whether the one you picked was the best for you or whether something else might have been better. I don't know if that is what we call "buyer's remorse" or maybe some of the incentive behind GAS or what.

I feel extremely fortunate that I was able to try before I bought all of my guitars. But even then, I have still done quite a bit of buying/selling/trading in my time. There, the catch is that you won't REALLY know about a given guitar until you have lived with it for a while. For me, the McPherson Sable and Touring are definitely keepers. I could easily go all carbon fiber at this point and be happy with what I have.

I have tried a couple of different makers of carbon fiber guitars and felt that the overall quality of all of them was very good. My issue with some of these is that I didn't care for the neck and/or string spacing, but quality was not an issue with any of them. Such issues are personal taste, rather than anything wrong with the guitar. I don't think one can go wrong with any of them these days. Though I have not played an Emerald recently, they certainly get enough very positive discussion around here to cause me to think they would also be a safe bet.

The McPherson is not the loudest carbon fiber around, but it is loud enough and comes with a decent pickup system, so amplifying it is not an issue. It does sound good and comes set up very nicely for easy play. I believe it is a guitar that will last much longer than I will, so I have none of the concerns one would have with a wood guitar. I also believe that years from now, it will play and sound just as it does now being relatively new.

Tony