My experiences with IRs - Aura, Optima Air, two notes Opus, Tonedexter II

[barnes]

Perhaps others have been on a similar journey, and so I wanted to take a moment to document all I’ve learned.

For context, I play a mix of singer songwriter, folk, rock etc. in a variety of venues (old stone churches, to bars/clubs, reception venues), with different band configurations (from solo, to trio, to 5 piece band). In most situations we’re doing our own sound through a QSC touch mix (a legit, powerful digital mixer).

I play a variety of acoustics, however most are vintage/high end Martins. My pickup of choice has long been the (now defunct) Highlander IP-1. More recently I’ve installed the Anthem.

I sincerely believe that transducer style pickups (ie K&K) sound ok, but crumble on themselves quickly at high volume. Piezo pickups seem to be the best choice for louder stages…but of course suck.

This has brought me to conclude, in my experience, that only Impulse Responses (or similar tech) will save acoustic tone.

With that in mind, here’s been my evolution:

1. Fishman Aura Spectrum: played this for years, however I was always using other images, not one specifically made of my guitar. Fishman no longer does this. Eventually, I decided my tone wasn’t truly great, and went looking for more.

2. NUX Optima Air: this ticked a lot of boxes, and I enjoyed making my own IRs (both with the pedal AND the Cuki /jf45 algos) to use with this pedal. It required a LOT of time invested to fine tune it, however it was time well spent as I found the tone much better than the Aura. In the end, the pedal had a bad habit of introducing digital noise if it had been on for a while (like in set 2 or 3 of a 3 set night). While I could eliminate the noise by rebooting the pedal, this seemed really annoying, and the last thing I wanted to do was spend any time thinking about this at a gig instead of staying in the moment.

3. Two Notes Opus: this looked like the ultimate replacement for the NUX Optima Air…super sleek, but highly customizable and powerful. Plus in a pinch it could be used for electric (though for my genre, I must admit I don’t like the electric tone from the Opus). I once again was using fine IRs created by Cuki / jf45. Through studio monitors and low volumes, the sound was impeccable…as good, if not better than the NUX. Sadly… playing with a band required a stage volume that instantly sent the acoustic into feedback. I worked hard to eq via the board, edit the IR, use a feedback buster, etc….and still it was feeding back AND the sound was too damaged by sever eq. Alas, go fish…

4. Tonedexter II - So it’s at this point that I think about the DIY element that is inherent to the Opus, and figured I should veer back towards a made for purpose solution…cue the Tonedexter II. I saw that there were some feedback and eq capabilities built in, and figured that it would at least give me more tools in the tool box to try compared to other solutions. Admittedly in the past I wasn’t wowd by online demos of the Tonedexter and so in my mind this would be a step down from the other IR solutions. Boy was I wrong! First off; the wave map process is SO easy. It’s fast, no screwing around…just play and try a couple different mics and position. So good. I tried a EV635a, Neuman km184, Gefell UM70…. The km184 won the day. I immediately found the processed signal to sound better than what I had achieved previously AND waaaay more feedback resistant! I gigged it for the first time last night and actually had numerous strangers approach me afterwards to comment on how good the guitar sounded. One guy told me he owns a 1960s D28 wanted to know what I was using.

I totally understand that as time goes on, I may continue to evolve my taste and needs…but I sincerely think that for me, I have at long last landed on the right solution.

My advice to people is to really look at these tools, and ask yourself if it’s truly fit for your use and purpose…and while it might be tempting to purchase a cheaper pedal to save a few bucks; having more features tends to future proof and is a life saver on a gig.

Hope this was helpful for someone else!

[lkingston]

Yes, a bunch of us have been on the similar journey.

I just got the Tonedexter II as well, and like you, I think that I finally am set for a while.

The Optima Air wasn’t a complete waste though. I have been using the IR I captured with it with my Helix, and with Positive Grid’s FX2, where it works really well, and doesn’t have the noise or lack of blend control issues. It still is useful because it means that if I am using FX, I can get that IR quality sound without also connecting the Tonedexter.

Most of the time, all I want is guitar though, and the Tonedexter really does do that incredibly well!

[Marshall]

Cool. Did you gig the TD2 with the band? That was your feedback problem before.

[Marshall]

I've floated in similar waters. I had an old Aura too. Thing died. But I never thought their programs sounded anything like the target guitars. They were an improvement over a naked pickup. But only a step along the way.

I had a TD1. Loved it for a while. But ultimately thought in a live setting my wave maps were sounding tubbier than the guitar normally should. Then I went Mag/SBT combo pickups and sold the TD1 to a friend. He still uses it and loves it for what he does.

Then I tried a NUX Optima Air. Didn't like their IR process. Sold it.

Then Cucki and John and Aaron talked up custom IRs for free. I made a few of those. But I needed an IR loader.. So, strangely enough, I bought another Optima Air, as it was a cheap way to load in custom IRs. That worked pretty well. (A little dicey figuring out how to load them in, but when I figured it out it worked well)

Now I've mostly gotten off the Mag/SBT pickup systems, and tried out the Goaa saddle pickup. That works very well when you get everything installed and figured out. But it still has some piezo edginess. So, now I've gone back to the NUX and tried some of their packaged IRs that come loaded on the pedal. And I'm having VERY good success with a couple of those eliminating edginess and giving a rich acoustic-like sound I like live. I've played thru stage monitors and have been able to control feedback very well.

I'm leaning away from custom IRs at the moment. I find I really don't want an amplified sound to sound exactly like my acoustic guitar. An amplified acoustic is living in a different world and cant just be scaled up. That being said, the final sound does need to have characteristics similar to an acoustic sound to be pleasing. But acoustic on steroids, so to speak.

Who knows what tomorrow will bring.

[jonfields45]

I posted this recently to describe my thoughts on ToneDexter, which to summarize, is in my opinion the best IR solution and maybe part of the best pickup solution you could choose.

Unlike electric guitar speaker cabinet IRs which are directly measured, acoustic guitar IRs are calculated. There are basic assumptions to the math that are only mostly true. Then you add decisions made by the code author to prune out noise and close miking anomalies. Finally our hearing evolved to clearly distinguish whispers at low volumes. Our hearing boosts voice frequencies at low volumes. What sounds right at low volumes will sound like too much bass at higher volumes (it’s more complicated in detail).

I think many of us have experienced a pickup that sounds awful direct recorded, but is acceptable amplified in a live sounding room. Ambience can be a great equalizer. Stacking an IR on top of room ambience can be too much.

ToneDexter is attempting to understand and compensate, under your control with relatively few knobs to twist, all of this so that the IR you captured and loved at home is stage ready. This is a big step up from the microphone hassles of a dual source pickup or an external mic, which can be competitive in low feedback potential venues.

I think the obvious advantage of a simple passive bullet proof SBT in your guitar where both can be passed someday to your grandchildren, and all the complex heavy lifting on the floor in a nicely over designed ToneDexter pedal is the way to go.

The use cases for my IRs that make sense to me:

1. An inexpensive cabinet IR loader (e.g. SonicIR) is affordable to you and your guitar has a factory UST.
2. For travel light venues like an open mike, the SonicIR fits in your case pocket and will run 5 hours on a 9 volt battery. It gives you a selection of blended bypass IRs, volume control, and DI.
3. You have a higher end effects processor (e.g. HX Stomp) and are comfortable with its menus, EQ, reverb, looper, notch filters, IR blend control, etc. and need an IR to complete the functionality for an acoustic guitar.

[barnes]

Originally Posted by Marshall

Cool. Did you gig the TD2 with the band? That was your feedback problem before.

Great catch!

My gig Saturday was NOT full band...

I have played it at full band volume through my rehearsal space PA, without feedback buster, and it all holds up. That said, it really will require more use in different spaces and PAs to be fully proven out. I am very optimistic though, as I couldn't even get this far with the other solutions.

[barnes]

Originally Posted by Marshall

I've floated in similar waters. I had an old Aura too. Thing died. But I never thought their programs sounded anything like the target guitars. They were an improvement over a naked pickup. But only a step along the way.

I had a TD1. Loved it for a while. But ultimately thought in a live setting my wave maps were sounding tubbier than the guitar normally should. Then I went Mag/SBT combo pickups and sold the TD1 to a friend. He still uses it and loves it for what he does.

Then I tried a NUX Optima Air. Didn't like their IR process. Sold it.

Then Cucki and John and Aaron talked up custom IRs for free. I made a few of those. But I needed an IR loader.. So, strangely enough, I bought another Optima Air, as it was a cheap way to load in custom IRs. That worked pretty well. (A little dicey figuring out how to load them in, but when I figured it out it worked well)

Now I've mostly gotten off the Mag/SBT pickup systems, and tried out the Goaa saddle pickup. That works very well when you get everything installed and figured out. But it still has some piezo edginess. So, now I've gone back to the NUX and tried some of their packaged IRs that come loaded on the pedal. And I'm having VERY good success with a couple of those eliminating edginess and giving a rich acoustic-like sound I like live. I've played thru stage monitors and have been able to control feedback very well.

I'm leaning away from custom IRs at the moment. I find I really don't want an amplified sound to sound exactly like my acoustic guitar. An amplified acoustic is living in a different world and cant just be scaled up. That being said, the final sound does need to have characteristics similar to an acoustic sound to be pleasing. But acoustic on steroids, so to speak.

Who knows what tomorrow will bring.

Totally appreciate your comments here... The notion that a good deal of ongoing massaging being required resonates a ton. Especially with the NUX. I too would add that the NUX was super helpful for me, and honestly, had it not scared me off with the digital noise, I suspect I would still be using it.

I hear you about how some IRs can just be too hollow or something...ie. they lack some of the attack you want by taking TOO much of the piezo out. It's a fine balance...one that can sometimes even change from song to song.

Good luck on your continued hunt!

[barnes]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I posted this recently to describe my thoughts on ToneDexter, which to summarize, is in my opinion the best IR solution and maybe part of the best pickup solution you could choose.

Unlike electric guitar speaker cabinet IRs which are directly measured, acoustic guitar IRs are calculated. There are basic assumptions to the math that are only mostly true. Then you add decisions made by the code author to prune out noise and close miking anomalies. Finally our hearing evolved to clearly distinguish whispers at low volumes. Our hearing boosts voice frequencies at low volumes. What sounds right at low volumes will sound like too much bass at higher volumes (it’s more complicated in detail).

I think many of us have experienced a pickup that sounds awful direct recorded, but is acceptable amplified in a live sounding room. Ambience can be a great equalizer. Stacking an IR on top of room ambience can be too much.

ToneDexter is attempting to understand and compensate, under your control with relatively few knobs to twist, all of this so that the IR you captured and loved at home is stage ready. This is a big step up from the microphone hassles of a dual source pickup or an external mic, which can be competitive in low feedback potential venues.

I think the obvious advantage of a simple passive bullet proof SBT in your guitar where both can be passed someday to your grandchildren, and all the complex heavy lifting on the floor in a nicely over designed ToneDexter pedal is the way to go.

The use cases for my IRs that make sense to me:

1. An inexpensive cabinet IR loader (e.g. SonicIR) is affordable to you and your guitar has a factory UST.
2. For travel light venues like an open mike, the SonicIR fits in your case pocket and will run 5 hours on a 9 volt battery. It gives you a selection of blended bypass IRs, volume control, and DI.
3. You have a higher end effects processor (e.g. HX Stomp) and are comfortable with its menus, EQ, reverb, looper, notch filters, IR blend control, etc. and need an IR to complete the functionality for an acoustic guitar.

Great insight, Jon - thank you for chiming in.

I have found your IRs to be superb for certain use cases as well. It seems like the Tonedexter is helping me with a bit more universality of application which is something I really value...ie. I shouldn't worry too much about the nature of the gig...It'll work.

Regardless - your work, along with Cuki's, is truly invaluable to educating people about the possibilities of what IRs can do, and doing so for a minimal cost. Please keep up the important work!

[Daniel Grenier]

Originally Posted by Marshall

..... An amplified acoustic is living in a different world and cant just be scaled up. .......

Well said! My Boucher sounds stunning unplugged. Plugged in (K&K/mic, Sunnaudio MS-2 stereo pre), it sounds fantastic but that sound is indeed in a "different world".