Tonepros or Kluson?

[Jim Owen]

Hello all,
I love my Fuller's Vintage J50, but the tuning keys are just a wee bit problematic for me. Now I reckon that they are really Gotohs, though of course they read "Kluson," as they should. They are period correct white button, individual tuners, as appeared on some 50s Gibsons.

Perhaps mine have just become a bit worn with use--my guitar is a 96.

I see that Tonepros makes a drop in replacement.

I'm wondering if any of y'all have tried these? My other option is to order a new set of "Klusons," which I reckon are Gotohs. Both are 15:1 which typically works okay for me.

[Wade Hampton]

Jim, your questions interested me, particularly since I didn't know the answers to them. So I called and spoke to Steve Wark, the manager of Allparts.

What Steve told me is that the "Kluson" name was an abandoned copyright/trademark that was acquired by a company called WD Music, who are using it to manufacture Kluson-style tuners in China. The folks who have the "Tonepro" brand are a group of people who used to be associated with WD Music/Kluson, but have now gone off and set themselves up in competition to their former associates. They are also have their gears made for them in China.

Steve didn't have any details regarding exactly who is making the gears for both companies. That sort of thing tends to change frequently, anyway. But there's a reasonable possibility that the same subcontractor is making both "Kluson" and "Tonepro" tuners in the same factory.

But neither company is manufacturing the gears themselves, and both brands are made in China.

I haven't put either brand tuners on any of my own instruments, but I have taken some "Kluson" gears and turned them in my hands. They're fine, but there was a little more slop in the tuners I tried than I like.

The way that you can tell who made the tuners on your J-50 is to take one off and look at the underside. I just looked at a Gotoh set I have here that have "Japan" stamped on them.

Gibson has also used Schaller Kluson-style gears, as well. I took a set of those off a Gibson J-100, and they had the large, stylized capital letter S on them that Schaller uses as a trademark.

In my experience the Gotoh Klusons-style gears are better quality than the Schaller versions, even when they're older ones like you have. But since your guitar was built and equipped with tuning gears Gotoh has improved its product line significantly. They now have what they call "Rock Solid" technology that keeps the tuner shafts significantly more rigid, with much less slop than the older Gotoh gears.

This "Rock Solid" technology is something Gotoh has gradually extended to their product line, but which your tuners wouldn't have, even if they're Gotohs. I have a 2001 Gibson Advanced Jumbo that came with Gotoh Kluson-style gears, and they didn't have it.

So I replaced them with more recent ones that did.

This makes a really discernible difference in how well the tuners stay in tune. So given what I learned about Tonepro and Kluson brand tuners today from Steve Wark, and what I already knew about earlier Gotoh Klusons, my strong recommendations is that if it's the best possible tuner accuracy that you seek, your best bet will be to replace those gears with a modern set of Gotohs.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by Jim Owen

I'm wondering if any of y'all have tried these? My other option is to order a new set of "Klusons," which I reckon are Gotohs. Both are 15:1 which typically works okay for me.

Jim, just in case it wasn't clear enough from context, Gotoh is NOT manufacturing the new Kluson brand tuning gears. It's not clear exactly who is, but they're being made by a subcontractor operating a factory somewhere in mainland China.


whm

[RadackGuitars]

I've dealt with Tonepros directly and they're made in Korea.
The Kluson branded Tonepros are great tuners, the base plate is solid.

However, if you really love the guitar...put some Waverly's on it.

[Jim Owen]

Thanks, Wade. I also learnt from a pm that the Tonepros drop ins ain't really drop ins. They need a bigger hole drilled.

So I just ordered a set of Gotohs. Your description of the way they've changed since the 90s helped. Thanks!

[Jim Owen]

Originally Posted by RadackGuitars

I've dealt with Tonepros directly and they're made in Korea.
The Kluson branded Tonepros are great tuners, the base plate is solid.

However, if you really love the guitar...put some Waverly's on it.

Thanks Rob. I ordered Gotohs because I know they'll be drop in fits. I'll let y'all know how it turns out next string change.

On a side note, the Tonepros bridges for Gibson electrics are magnificent.

[Zorker]

I have a 2008 Hummingbird True Vintage that was spec'd by Fuller's. It has Gotohs (keystone though) which work better than any of the Waverlys I've had or own. You'll like them, they are great.

[Jim Owen]

Originally Posted by Zorker

I have a 2008 Hummingbird True Vintage that was spec'd by Fuller's. It has Gotohs (keystone though) which work better than any of the Waverlys I've had or own. You'll like them, they are great.

Hi Zorker--glad to hear that. I have recent Gotohs on another guitar, and they are very good. I'm betting that the Kluson replicas on my 59 reissue were made prior to Gotoh's improvements in stability. Your were made the newer, better way.

[Zorker]

If you have newer Gotohs, then you know how smooove they will be on that lovely J-50.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by Jim Owen

Thanks, Wade. I also learnt from a pm that the Tonepros drop ins ain't really drop ins. They need a bigger hole drilled.

So I just ordered a set of Gotohs. Your description of the way they've changed since the 90s helped. Thanks!

Glad I could help.


whm