Advice on carbon fiber full vs hybrid

[outwestbound]

Originally Posted by NoodleFingers

On Blackbird's website, they describe the Savoy as an "0" body shape that can fit in a 3/4-sized case. It appears to be 13.5" across the lower bout. That's definitely smaller than a GC. I've been wishing they'd make a GC-sized Savoy for years.

I think my GC sized Taylor is 19.5 tall, 15 wide and 4.375 deep.

At this point, I need to reduce the candidate list. I'm gonna take my Taylor GS Mini and larger GC sized Taylor out to my overland vehicle to get a sense of sizing when playing in vehicle's seating options. Then I have to decide if having a removable neck is essential or not. When I travel, the entire vehicle is shipped, so I can take a one-piece guitar. Got to think this through. I may get a carbon travel guitar with a removable neck and take my Taylor GS Mini also. If humidity wrecks the GS Mini, no great economic loss.

[Captain Jim]

If you find the Taylor GCs are comfortable, you owe it to yourself to consider an Emerald X7. The 24" scale is between the GC and the GSmini, and the curves and contours on the X7 body are beyond anything more traditional in shape.

I have the previous generation X7 and marvel at the sound/tone it produces. I had a GSmini and still have a 522ce 12-fret. Even the bigger size X20 is more comfortable.

Good luck with the search. Keep us posted with your travels - sounds interesting!

[Irishrep]

I have a x-7, Rainsong parlor, and McPherson touring. Easiest to find used and most reasonable cost wise is the Rainsong. it would be bulletproof and would meet all of your requirements. Dont worry about the neck. I find it so comfortable I bought a larger version (OM) for a little more volume.

[outwestbound]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

If you find the Taylor GCs are comfortable, you owe it to yourself to consider an Emerald X7. The 24" scale is between the GC and the GSmini, and the curves and contours on the X7 body are beyond anything more traditional in shape.

I have the previous generation X7 and marvel at the sound/tone it produces. I had a GSmini and still have a 522ce 12-fret. Even the bigger size X20 is more comfortable.

Good luck with the search. Keep us posted with your travels - sounds interesting!

Thanks for the input. One measurement that's important for me (girlfriend and myself) at 5'3" is the "reach", which I define as the body's waist to the nut. I'm now familiar with the pre mid 2018 v2 X7 vs. the newer v3 model, that's a bit larger.

Do you know the measurement on the v2 X7 from the waist to nut? Knowing that would be really great if you can let me know when you get a chance.

Is the neck pretty thin and C shaped on the v2 X7?

If you take a look at my Emerald X7 electric in the forum advertisements, you can get an idea of how the short scale looks relative to the body of the guitar. Also, you can order anything you want through Alistair's restaurant.

[Aspiring]

I have a new gen x7 and a Klos travel guitar and a Furch Little Jane.

Also a BlackBird El Capitan.

I take my guitars travelling and sometimes just down to my boat to hang out and play as well as up in my camper van to go skiing and overnight.

They all have different things that they do better. The Furch sets up and takes down very quickly and is the easiest to transport and the small backpack is easy to store / and pack. It also sounds great. Better than the klos to my ear but not quite up there with the x7.

The BlackBird sounds the best of the lot and I don't worry about it in the elements but is also very large so is much more of a pain to take a long and takes up too much space in either the boat or the camper most of the time. It is also a lot harder to play it inside the boat or camper just due to the physical size differences.

The baby Klos is great robust and worry free. The nut / string spacing is smaller than my preference but for some reason is still ridiculously easy to play. But the neck detach mechanism is slow relatively and so I usually do not take it apart to store or transport and as a result it takes up more storage space than the Furch. I will take it occasionally for plane travel as I can stuff it in my knapsack and stuff it full of clothes etc with no worries.

I will never take the Furch skiing due the rapid temperature changes. The Klos usually gets the nod there.

The x7 is great and what I usually take to my guitar lessons and will occasionally go to my boat but it takes up considerably more space in the cabin.

I do think that the full-size Klos in the price range you are looking at might be an interesting option and I think the hybrid would likely be robust enough for your needs.

The journey mentioned is another interesting option. The neck detach / reattach is similar to the Furch for speed so keeping it folded is a reasonable option.

[Captain Jim]

Originally Posted by outwestbound

Thanks for the input. One measurement that's important for me (girlfriend and myself) at 5'3" is the "reach", which I define as the body's waist to the nut. I'm now familiar with the pre mid 2018 v2 X7 vs. the newer v3 model, that's a bit larger.

Do you know the measurement on the v2 X7 from the waist to nut? Knowing that would be really great if you can let me know when you get a chance.

Is the neck pretty thin and C shaped on the v2 X7?

I just measured it: 20".

The Taylor necks are my favorites, and are the only wood acoustics I own anymore. The Emerald neck profile isn't quite as thin as my Taylors, but are close enough that it is an easy transition. Certainly more comfortable for me compared to the RainSong N2/NS neck. I had a RS Shorty for several years - I liked the tone but that chunky neck gave me hand cramps.

If you want an Emerald with a thin neck and don't want to pay for a custom neck, the X10 is a great guitar. Certainly bigger than the previous generation X7, but close in size to the latest X7, with a longer scale (25.5")... so, more of a reach. Also, a 1 11/16" nut width vs the other Emeralds with 1 3/4".

I like having a variety of guitars to play, and find my Emeralds and Taylors are a good fit. But, it is the Emeralds that get way more playing time. I was playing the X7 today - that was the first Emerald I owned; it really changed how I consider any acoustic guitar. Prior to getting that X7, my previous "travel" guitars had been an Ovation, a GSmini, and that previously mentioned RS Shorty. Those three are all gone, the X7 remains. It isn't just a travel guitar for me - I pick it up frequently when home and I have options.

All that said, getting the X7 was a leap of faith since it wasn't long after Emerald went to selling direct. The next two Emeralds were easy.

[Earl49]

Originally Posted by outwestbound

.....Then I have to decide if having a removable neck is essential or not. When I travel, the entire vehicle is shipped, so I can take a one-piece guitar......and take my Taylor GS Mini also. If humidity wrecks the GS Mini, no great economic loss.

It kinda sounds like a removable neck may be an unneeded feature. The GS Mini should survive pretty well in an RV. Wrap its case in extra blankets or sleeping bags to limit heating and store it on the floor (cooler) if you leave for the day w/o air conditioning. We've done that in our camp trailer when shore power was not available to run the AC. That takes care of temperature. You can contain humidity by putting case and all inside a couple of heavy plastic bags, like trash compactor bags or contractor-grade trash bags. This presumes you take it out to play regularly so mold cannot grow. If the Mini then eventually develops issues, there are plenty more just like it on the used market. You can buy three GS Mini's used for the entry price of almost any CF guitar. While I don't condone abuse of instruments, they are a lot tougher than most forum members give them credit for.

As I mentioned in the PM sent earlier, my wife liked her Cargo (better sound and build quality) over the mahogany topped GS Mini, but both went by the wayside once she tried an X7. Good luck in your research!

[Frettingflyer]

I too wanted to point out that wood guitars are a bit more durable than we usually give them credit for. That said, taking your mini(you already own it) and adding a small CF guitar may be nice if you have space?
You mentioned the CF/glass mix and the sound. It does effect the sound, that is why Rainsong uses it, and most say it gives it a more “wood like” sound, whatever that is(no one says which woods...). I know my shorty sounded phenomenal, was super light and I believe exactly the same size as a Taylor GC, plus you can find a store to try one. Although the Shorty isn’t made anymore I believe you can still get a 12fret OM from Rainsong, check with Ted at LA Guitars for the latest info. Since there are more around they can be found used too, saving a few dollars. Also, they fit well in the Access stage 1 small guitar bag so no need for a hard case making travel easier.
Keep us posted on the search and journey please.

[outwestbound]

Originally Posted by Aspiring

I have a new gen x7 and a Klos travel guitar and a Furch Little Jane.

Also a BlackBird El Capitan.

I take my guitars travelling and sometimes just down to my boat to hang out and play as well as up in my camper van to go skiing and overnight.

They all have different things that they do better. The Furch sets up and takes down very quickly and is the easiest to transport and the small backpack is easy to store / and pack. It also sounds great. Better than the klos to my ear but not quite up there with the x7.

The BlackBird sounds the best of the lot and I don't worry about it in the elements but is also very large so is much more of a pain to take a long and takes up too much space in either the boat or the camper most of the time. It is also a lot harder to play it inside the boat or camper just due to the physical size differences.

The baby Klos is great robust and worry free. The nut / string spacing is smaller than my preference but for some reason is still ridiculously easy to play. But the neck detach mechanism is slow relatively and so I usually do not take it apart to store or transport and as a result it takes up more storage space than the Furch. I will take it occasionally for plane travel as I can stuff it in my knapsack and stuff it full of clothes etc with no worries.

I will never take the Furch skiing due the rapid temperature changes. The Klos usually gets the nod there.

The x7 is great and what I usually take to my guitar lessons and will occasionally go to my boat but it takes up considerably more space in the cabin.

I do think that the full-size Klos in the price range you are looking at might be an interesting option and I think the hybrid would likely be robust enough for your needs.

The journey mentioned is another interesting option. The neck detach / reattach is similar to the Furch for speed so keeping it folded is a reasonable option.

Thank you. This is useful and applicable to our situation. We heavily modified a Mercedes Sprinter 3500 based motorhome built by Winnebago for this trip to South America. We have no AC, or need it, and control temp by selecting appropriate altitude. But there are times on the coats when it's hot and humid, bla bla. We live in Tampa, FL so nothing new.

We removed the bed in the overcab and there is plenty of room for guitars in that space, yet we have more space then weight capacity, so want to remain light weight. Playing inside the vehicle is cramped, but possible with a small body.

At first, we were going to get a cheap plywood OO sized guitar (bulletproof for a wood body), then get our luthier to beat it into submission with upgraded components to achieve decent action, then hope for the best. The information by others about using plastic bags is new to me and very appreciated. I may take my Taylor GS Mini and bag it. At the end of the trip, we'll probably end up tossing whatever we took, but a carbon would likely survive.

Now that "carbon" is under consideration, we have to decide if a removable neck is essential. If yes, it will be because we plan "excursions" outside the campervan, such as to the Galápagos Islands or Antarctica, etc., involving ships and/or planes, etc.

We're looking 6-7 guitars with and without removable necks. Looking at carbon with zero knowledge of CF is a typical blizzard of facts and varied opinions. Our small body size imposes a hard constraints that we can't ignore, mostly with the "reach" of the guitar and neck profile. Most manufacturer's don't publish the dimensions of their guitar necks, which is asinine in our opinions. Typically, we have to beat the profiles out of them. Some wood manufactures are ashamed that they can't seem to produce the same sized neck each run, so they don't like using numbers to describe their profiles. But since CF is a mold, it should be consistent, I "guess".

Busting out a $2,000 instrument around the campfire in South America is ill advised for a variety of reasons, so we're looking to remain under $1,500, which will likely put us into a production or used guitar, rather than custom. If a guitar is lost, destroyed or stolen, replacements are unlikely without returning to the United States. Hence, I hope to get it right.

[outwestbound]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

I just measured it: 20".

The Taylor necks are my favorites, and are the only wood acoustics I own anymore. The Emerald neck profile isn't quite as thin as my Taylors, but are close enough that it is an easy transition. Certainly more comfortable for me compared to the RainSong N2/NS neck. I had a RS Shorty for several years - I liked the tone but that chunky neck gave me hand cramps.

Thanks! 20 is a good number for us if 14 frets on the neck. If we decide we don't need a removable neck, the v2 X7 is one of the top contenders. We play rhythm a lot, so 12 frets work well. Lots of research left to do.

I have seen the Emerald X7 necks characterized as "moderate C", whatever that means. Thanks for the comparison to Taylor. That I understand. Bob spent a fortune on mechanization at Taylor. The necks are consistent.

So the RainSong N2/NS necks are "fatter" than the Emerald v2 X7? Good info on the Shorty's neck. I'll scratch that off the list. I saw one on Reverb.

I have Taylors and a Martin OOO21 custom shop with the modified low oval with performing artist taper neck. Smaller the better.

[outwestbound]

Originally Posted by Frettingflyer

I too wanted to point out that wood guitars are a bit more durable than we usually give them credit for. That said, taking your mini(you already own it) and adding a small CF guitar may be nice if you have space?
You mentioned the CF/glass mix and the sound. It does effect the sound, that is why Rainsong uses it, and most say it gives it a more “wood like” sound, whatever that is(no one says which woods...). I know my shorty sounded phenomenal, was super light and I believe exactly the same size as a Taylor GC, plus you can find a store to try one. Although the Shorty isn’t made anymore I believe you can still get a 12fret OM from Rainsong, check with Ted at LA Guitars for the latest info. Since there are more around they can be found used too, saving a few dollars. Also, they fit well in the Access stage 1 small guitar bag so no need for a hard case making travel easier.
Keep us posted on the search and journey please.

Thanks. I think I'll get a CF and/or CF/glass mix guitar as my primary. Like all essential systems on my rig, I'll take my existing Taylor GS Mini as a backup. Based on good advice posted in this thread, I'm gonna try to find a thick zip lock style plastic bag for my Taylor GS Mini. Or I may find a sealed plastic container that it will fit into. I didn't know it could be protected like that, so good information.

I'm looking at RainSong product. I prefer a 12-fret with a low profile C shaped neck similar to Taylor.

[outwestbound]

Originally Posted by Earl49

It kinda sounds like a removable neck may be an unneeded feature. The GS Mini should survive pretty well in an RV. Wrap its case in extra blankets or sleeping bags to limit heating and store it on the floor (cooler) if you leave for the day w/o air conditioning. We've done that in our camp trailer when shore power was not available to run the AC. That takes care of temperature. You can contain humidity by putting case and all inside a couple of heavy plastic bags, like trash compactor bags or contractor-grade trash bags. This presumes you take it out to play regularly so mold cannot grow. If the Mini then eventually develops issues, there are plenty more just like it on the used market. You can buy three GS Mini's used for the entry price of almost any CF guitar. While I don't condone abuse of instruments, they are a lot tougher than most forum members give them credit for.

As I mentioned in the PM sent earlier, my wife liked her Cargo (better sound and build quality) over the mahogany topped GS Mini, but both went by the wayside once she tried an X7. Good luck in your research!

Thanks. Great info on how to keep the GS Mini if I take it and I think I will. I didn't know any of this, so good info. The Mini can be a back up, but we're thinking we want a CF (or CF/glass-whatever) guitar as a primary. We're undecided on whether the neck needs to be removable. I'll PM you about your X7.

[AZLiberty]

Originally Posted by outwestbound

Thanks for the help folks. I'll research the hybrid (CF + wood) more today. Also, I learned from this thread that there are differences in the way carbon fiber is produced depending on the glass component. Had no idea. If the less expensive material (more glass I gather) doesn't materially affect tone, I'd be fine with that, or even prefer it for this guitar.

Thanks for the help folks.

The higher glass content lowers the transverse speed of sound in the material. Physics says that makes it sound warmer. Whether you can hear the difference is... subject to debate.

[AZLiberty]

Old X7 next to my Larrivee Parlor. It's small. The Larrivee is an 0 size, the X7 is not only smaller, but feels a lot smaller due to the bevels.




Old X7 and New X7 next to each other:



Honestly though, I'd probably go with the Journey overhead. You can always leave the neck on.