Advice on carbon fiber full vs hybrid

[outwestbound]

Hello. I'm planning an "expedition" where I'll ship an overland vehicle internationally and live in the small motorhome type vehicle about 85% of the time traveling full time for 1-2 years. Taking my 00021 Martin or 512 Taylor wouldn't make sense, because the extreme humidity and temperature variations are prohibitive. I have no reliable way to keep any instrument at humidity.

Hence, I'm considering a carbon guitar, which I knew nothing about until last week. It's tighter quarters, so I'm thinking about a "travel style" guitar.

Humidity durability being the KEY determinant, what are the pros and cons of the full carbon vs hybrid. Without limitation but as an example, KLOS makes a full and hybrid travel guitar. But doesn't the inclusion of a wood bridge and neck negate the humidity/climate tolerance aspect?

Any advice on which type (full vs. hybrid) to focus on and which travel guitar may be best suited for my trip is appreciated. I'm not terribly sensitive to price, IF the additional money improves tone. I don't care what brand is it.

I'm guessing the range that makes sense is $800 to $1,500, since it will get beat up pretty badly around many, many campfires and brutal climate exposure. I'm more inclined to spend a little more for better tone, even if it gets beat up, than listen to a poor sounding instrument.

Thanks

[Earl49]

Clearly all CF will be more durable. You probably won't have much issue with the hybrid, however. A wood neck is pretty solid and durable, and the bridge won't be likely to peel up if the carbon fiber top isn't moving with humidity. Thin parts like the top, back and sides are where carbon fiber really shines. I owned a Rainsomg PMJ-1000 for many years (CF top, laminated wood body, solid wood neck and fret board) and had no issues at all. It now lives with a friend in Tucson, AZ.

I have no experience with Klos guitars, but there are two Klos ukulele in our club and they are quite nice. My first thought was an Emerald X7 or a Composite Acoustics Cargo, both all carbon-fiber and travel sized but still have decent tone. Of the two the Emerald's 24" scale is probably more versatile than the Cargo's 22.75" scale length. I happen to own both of those, plus an Emerald X20, which would also be a very good overall choice with bigger sound (but not quite as compact). X20 is a GA/000 body size.

[bsman]

One of the Journey CFs might be if interest as well - the Overhead (OF660) if stowability is important (the neck is easily removable and it packs into a carry-on bag) or the Roadtrip (RT660) if not.

[jdinco]

Earl is right on, I would agree with the Cargo or X7. If it were me, I'd take the Cargo. Both nice sounding guitars !

[AZLiberty]

Hybrid means different things to different companies.

With Rainsong hybrid means a mixture of CF glass fiber. Cheaper than pure CF, but just as durable.

[Explorer]

I previously would take a different CF guitar with me on trips, often the Rainsong AWS-1000 I picked up really cheaply more than a few years ago, using a gig bag.

A while ago I bought the Journey OF660, which has an easily removable neck and which fits into a TSA-compliant overhead bag. My partner liked the sound when first hearing it, and the bag (and instrument itself) has enough space to even pack a bit of stuff for a weekend.

In a vehicle, it is easier to arrange baggage around the rectangular case than to figure out how to Tetris things around to accommodate a typical guitar's neck.

Best of all, the assembly and disassembly is quick and painless, and it's even in tune upon reassembly.

I originally had considered a KLOS, but the Journey is around the same cost new for the full carbon, and the assembly and breakdown each take less than a minute, with no tools required, compared to the several-minute, tool-required procedure for the KLOS.

I heartily recommend the Journey OF660.

[steelvibe]

Can't comment on the X7 or the Klos. My dos centavos and something to add to the mix.....

RainSong P12- a very nice/loud sounding guitar that would excel in fingerstyle, blues or slide. Light as a feather, but there are reports of it being "neck heavy". Having most of the weight in the neck of a guitar isn't a deal-breaker for me but not an attractive feature either. The 12 fret design on RainSongs really are nice both for ergonomics and tone. Cons: The neck is somewhat polarizing with many reporting not bonding with it. I had the OM model and loved everything about it except the neck (same neck). Unidirectional carbon top, fiberglass/carbon b/s.

McPherson Touring- a killer little guitar that punches way above it's weight. I've only been able to spend about 30 minutes with one, but what an impression! The Sable (Touring's big brother) is probably the best sounding CF guitar on the market- all things being subjective of course. But that guitar is too big for what your looking for. I only mention it because the McPherson Carbon Series is nothing to shake a stick at. I recommend the guitars made in the last few years though, not the Kevin Michael versions. The McPherson badge guitars sound better to my ears, both the Touring and the Sable. Cons: on the higher side price wise, a bit heavy for its size, and the scale on the traveler may be off putting for some (22.75"). Carbon fiber tops, composite graphite b/s.

Journey OF660- already noted here a couple times is a great guitar for the price. I bought one a little over 2 years ago and still have it. I haven't been flying...don't care. I'm so happy with it that I bought a dedicated gig bag for it so I don't have to take it down every time I go somewhere with it-- gig bag for everyday use, TSA backpack for flying. The neck carve is nice, good tone, great pickup, break down neck in seconds, full-size 24.5" neck, most accessible price point. Cons: heavy. Journey's website states these are 4.1 lbs. No, they are not. I'm guessing they are at least 6.5 lbs. My RainSong was lighter and a much larger guitar. Unidirectional carbon fiber top, fiberglass/carbon b/s.

[outwestbound]

Originally Posted by Earl49

Clearly all CF will be more durable. You probably won't have much issue with the hybrid, however.

Thanks! I'm going to make a list based on all these great comments and research these brands, plus talk to some manufacturers. It's hard for me to believe that manufacturers would materially diminish a perceived benefit of carbon (e.g., the bulletproof climate aspect) by incorporating wood components. If your thinking that the hybrids (wood neck, bridge, fret board+ cf body) are substantially similar in durability to all cf guitars is correct, that makes sense to me. But clearly, the all carbon must be more durable in the margin. I suppose it depends on the degree of exposure.

I gather that the wood neck/board may promote a "warmer" tone than the carbon counter parts. I kinda like my Martin's rounder sound than my Taylor, because Taylor is a little too bright for me. But I do like both a lot. I wouldn't want to get a new carbon hybrid chasing a rounder tone at the expense of durability.

[outwestbound]

Originally Posted by AZLiberty

Hybrid means different things to different companies.

With Rainsong hybrid means a mixture of CF glass fiber. Cheaper than pure CF, but just as durable.

Good info. Thanks. My meaning comes from the inclusion of a wood bridge, neck and fret board. I assume the head is wood on guitars with wood necks, but I'm not sure.

[outwestbound]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

Can't comment on the X7 or the Klos. My dos centavos and something to add to the mix.....

RainSong P12-
McPherson Touring-
Journey OF660-

Great info.

I'll research these for sure.

[outwestbound]

Thanks for the help folks. I'll research the hybrid (CF + wood) more today. Also, I learned from this thread that there are differences in the way carbon fiber is produced depending on the glass component. Had no idea. If the less expensive material (more glass I gather) doesn't materially affect tone, I'd be fine with that, or even prefer it for this guitar.

I'll get a list together and work through specs. I'm 5'3" with smaller hands and a fretting index finger that's a little gimpy due to arthritis in the big knuckle. A thin C neck carve is essential and the profile information is often hard to get. I typically play rhythm seated and on the lower end of the fret board, so the arm "reach" is important. Reach is the distance from the body's waist to the nut. Electrics are physically easier for me to play, such as my Gibson Les Paul Classic 24.75" scale, Fender Duo Sonic 24" scale with favorable reach, narrower nuts and smaller board radii. My Taylor grand concert size 512 12-fret is my most comfortable acoustic full size guitar. Taylor has a thin neck profile.

Thanks for the help folks.

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[TRose]

Sounds like you’ve gotten lots of good information. I have an Emerald X7 and a Journey OF660 and would recommend either without reservation for an instrument to take on your adventure.
Best of luck on your search and on your travels.
-Tom

[Earl49]

Originally Posted by outwestbound

My Taylor grand concert size 512 12-fret is my most comfortable acoustic full size guitar. Taylor has a thin neck profile.

To compare most directly with Taylor grand concert, maybe look at Blackbird Savoy in ekoa, or a used Lucky 13 in CF. Both are virtually the same body size as a GC and has Taylor-like necks. I've only played the Journey once for a few minutes, but it seemed really nice too - we don't need the folding neck feature. As of that carbon fiber gathering in FEB 2018, we were focused on Emeralds and my wife really bonded with an X7.

A report on Carbon Fest 2018:
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=501320

[NoodleFingers]

Originally Posted by Earl49

Both are virtually the same body size as a GC...

On Blackbird's website, they describe the Savoy as an "0" body shape that can fit in a 3/4-sized case. It appears to be 13.5" across the lower bout. That's definitely smaller than a GC. I've been wishing they'd make a GC-sized Savoy for years.